Can I get less than half MOA from "MY" factory barrel.

[Trickymissfit]

My runout has been less than .003. No reason not to check again. Almost nothing on neck turned brass, but neck turned brass didn't shoot better than 1/2 moa with any consistency. My shooting became much more precise over night by changing a few things. I woke up early and started shooting as the sun was coming up. When developing loads, I don't touch the rear bag, just the front mechanical rest to make adjustments. And finally I started with a new batch of untouched brass, except a vld ream so copper jackets don't get scraped off. Happens a lot with my berger 70 gr vld's.

just a note about the .003" runout. If your using one of the gear & rack long travel indicators that come with a lot of gauges, they usually have about 10% lag built into them (backlash). One other thing to check is the barrel itself. Run a tight patch down the barrel looking for loose spots and tight spot. If the bore gets looser at the muzzel you have a problem.
gary

 

[TracySes23]

just a note about the .003" runout. If your using one of the gear & rack long travel indicators that come with a lot of gauges, they usually have about 10% lag built into them (backlash). One other thing to check is the barrel itself. Run a tight patch down the barrel looking for loose spots and tight spot. If the bore gets looser at the muzzel you have a problem.
gary

True there is backlash, but the backlash is offset with one stronger spring on the spindle (or plunger) and the dial has a spring of its own. Not Unlike some clock springs.

 

[D.ID]

All my rifles that start with an S will hit .5" or better with tailored handloads. My win70 will not, my rem700 will not but my savages and sako will even with factory tubes. Sometimes right out of the box and sometimes after bedding, bonding, torquing and all that jazz but they will do it, without machining or truing and only with there favorite bullet and a tuned load. Could be a fluke but at this point in the collection I doubt it. While I certainly would not expect it all the time, most the time it is very doable. I have a rifle that can hold a .25" with a 190grn if I am up to it, but won't hold 1.25" with any thing lighter than 180grn.

 

[Trickymissfit]

True there is backlash, but the backlash is offset with one stronger spring on the spindle (or plunger) and the dial has a spring of its own. Not Unlike some clock springs.

a typical gear and rack dial indicator is certified with 10% backlash in them. At onetime there wwere a few made in the quarter inch and hundred thousandth travel areas that were jewelled. These were very expensive and hard to come by. Have not seen a new one in a long long time, and still had about two or three percent lag built into them. The spring that pushes the anvil would be a race hemi valve spring, but you still got the backlash. Now of course you could opt for one of the indicators that uses an encoder inside it to read anvil movement (some will call it stem movement). These are very precise in measurment of travel. There is another issue with them that I'll go into later. For seriously precise measurment you always use a wand type indicator. Everything is pretty much direct coupled in them and even a bad one will come in at about two or three percent lag. A typical Best Test or an Interrrapid are certified as zero backlash. On the otherhand a good quality Federal that reads in one tenth increments will still show up well under two tenths backlash. When you move past the wand type indicator you usually look at lasers or air gauging. The next step after than is an auto columator that reads in arc seconds. One normally will use an indicator that reads in one tenths when working down to the two thousandth range or less to be a little more precise. If he's working close to the one ten thousandth area he probably will opt for a fifty millionth indicator (one half a ten thousandth) because the percentage of error is smaller in actual numbers. I get by very well with a couple five tenth indicators, but own several one tenth and a couple fifty millionth ones. That's why a NECO gauge comes with a one thousandth GEM indicator instead of some sort on long travel device. (I use .0005" indicators).

Now I must make an addendum to the jewlled indicator comment. I forgot all about Rhan. They manufacture surface plate upkeep equipment and extreme measuring equipment. They do make and sell a jewlled ruby tipped twenty millionth and one with an encoder in it. Pretty expensive, and carry a one percent error factor. Not made for the average guy to use.
gary

 

[TracySes23]

a typical gear and rack dial indicator is certified with 10% backlash in them. At onetime there wwere a few made in the quarter inch and hundred thousandth travel areas that were jewelled. These were very expensive and hard to come by. Have not seen a new one in a long long time, and still had about two or three percent lag built into them. The spring that pushes the anvil would be a race hemi valve spring, but you still got the backlash. Now of course you could opt for one of the indicators that uses an encoder inside it to read anvil movement (some will call it stem movement). These are very precise in measurment of travel. There is another issue with them that I'll go into later. For seriously precise measurment you always use a wand type indicator. Everything is pretty much direct coupled in them and even a bad one will come in at about two or three percent lag. A typical Best Test or an Interrrapid are certified as zero backlash. On the otherhand a good quality Federal that reads in one tenth increments will still show up well under two tenths backlash. When you move past the wand type indicator you usually look at lasers or air gauging. The next step after than is an auto columator that reads in arc seconds. One normally will use an indicator that reads in one tenths when working down to the two thousandth range or less to be a little more precise. If he's working close to the one ten thousandth area he probably will opt for a fifty millionth indicator (one half a ten thousandth) because the percentage of error is smaller in actual numbers. I get by very well with a couple five tenth indicators, but own several one tenth and a couple fifty millionth ones. That's why a NECO gauge comes with a one thousandth GEM indicator instead of some sort on long travel device. (I use .0005" indicators).

Now I must make an addendum to the jewlled indicator comment. I forgot all about Rhan. They manufacture surface plate upkeep equipment and extreme measuring equipment. They do make and sell a jewlled ruby tipped twenty millionth and one with an encoder in it. Pretty expensive, and carry a one percent error factor. Not made for the average guy to use.
gary

I worked 46 years in the trade & I've taken apart at least 6 plus of those types of plunger type dial indicators and every one of them had a springs that kept the rack gear pushed against one side of the spur gear at all times unless you would push the plunger up and down so fast it over rode the softer spring.The backlash was there but it was necessary to over ride the pressure of one spring to see the backlash. If one spring was not connected then the backlash could easily be seen. Perhaps you've seen a different type than I've dealt with.