Caliber advice

[Calvin45]

Your pushing that ol 7 mag pretty hard to get 3000fps from a 180, ain't cha ? Hornady load data maxes out at 2900 with the fastest powder they list. Most are closer to 2800. And they are using unicorn sprinkles to get 2900 (rl26)

I believe it's certainly doable but that is hot...speaking of hot, the only way I could get the 180 eldm, which is the highest bc 180 7mm I'm aware of (discounting nonexpanding solids perhaps), to retain 1600 foot pounds at 1200 yards with its .79 g1 bc at 3000 fps mv. on my ballistic calculator is if you're shooting at 5000 feet elevation and it's 100 degrees Fahrenheit. These conditions do of course exist but not as the typical reference point for exterior ballistic performance.

 

[ehryk]

Actually a 7mm Remington with 180 eld doing 3000 FPS still retains 1600 foot pounds of energy at 1200 yards.

2000 FPS at 1200 is unlikely as Calvin45 showed as I am getting more like 1050 FPE at 1200 yards pushing around 65000 psi with RL-26 to get that 3000 FPS in a 26" barrel. Granted, that's just a QL guestimate using generic info, but still. Not horrible, but definitely a warm load. Something I just noticed, that's 1600 FPS at 1200. Pushing 65k psi for an extra 150 FPE at 1200 isn't worth it to me. I doubt the elk notices it anyway.

 

[spindrift307]

6.5x284 light recoil and easy to load for accuracy.

Wes good to see you on here.

 

[Overkill338]

It amazes me that people can watch a grainy slow motion video and believe a deer got killed without being hit.

Look up the video of a guy shooting the same rifle through the opening of a house of cards without disturbing it and tell me you seriously still believed that a deer got its eyes sucked out by a passing by bullet.

I'm not certain, either way. But my dad had two older sisters that got shot at with a .270. One was killed. The other wasn't hit (doctors at the time said) but it was close enough it opened a huge laceration on her stomach. Which was closed back up horribly. This was in 1979.

I never said that video was gospel, just telling what I seen. A jet flying close to the water at Mach1 disturbs the water quite a bit. Seems like it is just basic physics that says anything moving through the air is going to leave some sort of "wake". I mow the highways for the city, and when cars come by, I can feel the wind, some more than others, but it's there. Just saying lol

 

[HobieH3]

Yeah, those Creed humpers really are a strange crowd. I heard they sit around "floggin' the dolphin" while reading creed load date lmao

But as long as they use the cartridge that was an answer without a question, it will keep more brass and ammo for the rest of us using real calibers.

Ok, ok, all jokes aside....

What does the Creed do that a 6.5-284 cant? What about the .260 Rem, .264 Win Mag, 6.5x55 etc etc? This is a serious question, insert no sarcasam. Let me guess ,someone will call it "It is inherently Accurate"?

Run well in an AR...

 

[Calvin45]

I understand the reasoning but if you've ever shot at an empty pop can you've probably seen it happen that you miss by just a little and the thing might tip over but it doesn't get ripped to sheds or sent flying by the wake (from a 300 or 270 anyway). If the turbulence was this violent paper targets staples to cardboard without a solid stop wouldn't have holes in them when shot, they'd be obliterated.

Very sorry to hear what happened to your family back in the 70s. I'd have to believe they called it wrong and your sister was in fact hit.

 

[Calvin45]

About the only major injury that could happen from a near miss would be a blown eardrum from the sonic boom if it went right by your head.

 

[Overkill338]

About the only major injury that could happen from a near miss would be a blown eardrum from the sonic boom if it went right by your head.

That's why I pointed out that's what the doctors said. Just like that video, got to salt to hell out of that pill lol

 

[WahooYahoo]

I believe it's certainly doable but that is hot...speaking of hot, the only way I could get the 180 eldm, which is the highest bc 180 7mm I'm aware of (discounting nonexpanding solids perhaps), to retain 1600 foot pounds at 1200 yards with its .79 g1 bc at 3000 fps mv. on my ballistic calculator is if you're shooting at 5000 feet elevation and it's 100 degrees Fahrenheit. These conditions do of course exist but not as the typical reference point for exterior ballistic performance.

I have a Kreiger 8 twist, 26". BC is more like .810 with that twist. Somewhere about 68.6gr of H1000 gets me to 2950fps, but 1/10th grain more leaves ejector marks so I backed off to the best node before that, in the 2840 fps neighborhood. So you're right, 3k is a bit over what I could achieve. The message isn't lost though. At distances most people shouldn't shoot, the 7mm Rem Mag with high BC, long, slippery bullets, is MORE than adequate to be humanely lethal on really big game.

These choices are almost always preference. Uncountable numbers of elk have met their end with various 24, 25, 26, 27,28 and 30 caliber bullets fired from handed down, shot out, retired military and borrowed guns. It's hard to imagine how many moose have been undone at the hands of a 6.5 Swede... We just like to do it better. Thats why we calculate, post, debate, tweek, practice and buy more gear than we can carry. I prefer it so. It is this that makes reading all of these posts and considering all of these opinions worthwhile. Those that aren't like us, just drag out grampa's old 270 or 30-06 come October and buy a box of whatever is on the shelf, content and none the wiser.

 

[Calvin45]

I have a Kreiger 8 twist, 26". BC is more like .810 with that twist. Somewhere about 68.6gr of H1000 gets me to 2950fps, but 1/10th grain more leaves ejector marks so I backed off to the best node before that, in the 2840 fps neighborhood. So you're right, 3k is a bit over what I could achieve. The message isn't lost though. At distances most people shouldn't shoot, the 7mm Rem Mag with high BC, long, slippery bullets, is MORE than adequate to be humanely lethal on really big game.

These choices are almost always preference. Uncountable numbers of elk have met their end with various 24, 25, 26, 27,28 and 30 caliber bullets fired from handed down, shot out, retired military and borrowed guns. It's hard to imagine how many moose have been undone at the hands of a 6.5 Swede... We just like to do it better. Thats why we calculate, post, debate, tweek, practice and buy more gear than we can carry. I prefer it so. It is this that makes reading all of these posts and considering all of these opinions worthwhile. Those that aren't like us, just drag out grampa's old 270 or 30-06 come October and buy a box of whatever is on the shelf, content and none the wiser.

And the maddening thing is they're almost never any less successful! Before I got truly interested in ballistics I did all my hunting in my youth with borrowed "inaccurate" rifles, without exception using Winchester super x powerpoints. Dad's marlin 30-30, an uncles lee enfield .303 British (which could double as a very effective club should the gun malfunction and the deer launch an offensive) and a friends Remington 7600 pump 30-06. The performance of that 30-06 is actually a part of the beginning of my fascination, it was notable to me how much more authority it hit with and how much flatter it shot, and I wanted more of that.

 

[lee31]

30-06 would be about perfect for what you're looking to do.

 

[silverhair]

So, a couple of rookie questions...

The OP said he desires a reasonably sized truck (is an F-150 too small?) impact at 600 yards. Accuracy at that range should be important, right? Gun handling and keeping on target for a follow-up shot should be important, right (nobody's perfect)?

That would seem to point to a rifle that does not require a fork lift to carry, a rifle that has a moderate to light recoil (to keep on target), a rifle that has kill power and penetration out to 600 yards. One with factory loads that can do the job or handloads with proven effectiveness. One that can drop an elk or antelope at 600 yards. One that has proven to be accurate at that range.

Am I missing something?

That said, in a review of the ballistics charts, there are a few that have that combination. The easy picks are 6.5CM and to a lesser extent .308, followed by the heavier recoil 7mm and 270. Is it really necessary to use a larger magnum caliber?

What other requirement need to be factored in? What am I missing here? I'm a rookie and still learning. Please help educate me. Point me to the facts I can study so that I can gain a better understanding.

 

[Overkill338]

So, a couple of rookie questions...

The OP said he desires a reasonably sized truck (is an F-150 too small?) impact at 600 yards. Accuracy at that range should be important, right? Gun handling and keeping on target for a follow-up shot should be important, right (nobody's perfect)?

That would seem to point to a rifle that does not require a fork lift to carry, a rifle that has a moderate to light recoil (to keep on target), a rifle that has kill power and penetration out to 600 yards. One with factory loads that can do the job or handloads with proven effectiveness. One that can drop an elk or antelope at 600 yards. One that has proven to be accurate at that range.

Am I missing something?

That said, in a review of the ballistics charts, there are a few that have that combination. The easy picks are 6.5CM and to a lesser extent .308, followed by the heavier recoil 7mm and 270. Is it really necessary to use a larger magnum caliber?

What other requirement need to be factored in? What am I missing here? I'm a rookie and still learning. Please help educate me. Point me to the facts I can study so that I can gain a better understanding.

30 caliber mags have bullets with amazing BC to buck the wind a little better, and get you less drop to deal with.

Using the Hornady Precision Hunter as an example.

.308 with the 178 ELD-X, zero at 200 has 50.2" of drop at 500 yards.

.270 with 145 ELD-X, same zero, has 37.6" of drop at 500.

6.5 CM 143gr, 44.5" of drop at 500
6.5 PRC 143gr, 36.2" drop
7-08, 150gr, -43" @ 500
7 RM, 162gr, -35.6" @ 500
7 STW, 162gr, -33" @ 500
Turdy-AhhShux, 178gr, -44.3"
300 WSM, 200gr, -40.9"
300 WM, 200gr, -39.5"
300 PRC, 212gr, -38.3"
300 Norma, 225, -37.2"
300 RUM, 220, -37.1"
30-378 Roy, 220, -34.1"

Ok, you get the idea I guess. I've typed so much now I forget what my point was lol

 

[WahooYahoo]

You're not missing anything. There are a multitude of capable cartridges. There likely is a sweet spot that has a smaller group of calibers in it but truthfully, that sweet spot is fluid. We have all sought the right gun and then found that it was overkill or didn't quite get it done as efficiently as is desirable. Thats why we have a safe or two full of other sweet-spots.
I suppose a good thread would be "If you could only keep 3 long guns, which would you pick?". Let me think about that...