Bushing Dies How To?

[kwduff]

Hey all, interested in getting a set of seating dies for my 300 Win Mag, just received a batch of ADG brass and 212 grain ELD-X rounds but never used bushing dies? Have just standard RCBS, is there a real advantage on hunting rounds out to 600 yards? Not a newbe to reloading but always ready to learn.

I use Redding Dies for my 300 Win, never been disappointed, i do NOT turn necks, follow simple directions for measuring case wall ( neck diameter) add the bullet diameter, .308 in your case, subtract the desired amount of tension you want, like .001, .002 etc, order the bushing and go. ALWAYS check to make sure chamber will cycle the round, it happened to me once, in total pith black, 75 miles from home, NO AMMO. Gotta laugh at this, climb out of the tee, drive the ATV back, load it up, drive home. I use a separate decap die, clean anneal the brass, the usual stuff. It's worth the time on paper, if you check concentricity, you'll be surprised at how little run out you find using bushing dies. Check out Panhandle's videos on neck sizing only. It's worth the view.

 

[Davew223]

The Lee seating die... I "CAN" get very accurate results with it but the Redding micrometer seating die is much better.

 

[cajun]

Like others have said if your not turning necks your not going to get the most out of the bushings and can possibly induce runout. Imho getting a forster full length die honed to your specific amount of neck tension is a very cheap way to make accurate ammo and not over work your brass. The Lee collet die has been mentioned. On the two rounds I used it for I was unable to get enough neck tension to prevent bullet movement without buying undersized bushing or modifying the bushing. Plus you still have to use a body or full length die at some point.

 

[Braunschweiger]

It will bump the shoulder back if it is a FL bushing die but not if it is a NK bushing die.
2 different dies!

Essentially the FL bushing die without the bushing does the same job as a body die.

Yep. I know the difference. Never felt a need to purchase a neck sizing only die.

 

[newmexkid]

And so, your journey down the rabbit hole begins!!

 

[Double Dropper]

**** LOL that's alot to chew on! I was not planning on turning the necks, I do want sufficient tension on the neck, this a hunting rifle first and foremost. I do not shoot competitions, I just want the most balanced hunting ammunition I can load. ADG brass, looking at using 212 ELD-X or Berger 215 Bullets, I have Rl-25, IMR 8133 and Retumbo on hand, both Fed 215GM and CCI 250 primers to start......and here we are.

 

[epoletna]

I was going to write a long reply explaining why a collet die (for sizing, not seating) was not what you needed, but others have covered it well. Let me reiterate the high points:

1. If you don't know the neck diameter of your rifle chamber (you probably have a rifle with SAAMI standards), you probably can't make much difference with a collet die and specially-selected collets. I know the neck diameter on my bench-rest rifles, but not on my hunting rifles.

2. If you don't standardize your neck thickness by turning all your case necks to the same thickness, you probably can't make much difference with a collet die.

3. If you use different brands and lots of brass, you probably can't make much difference with a collet die.

Bottom line: if you're reloading for bench rest matches where the results are compared in thousandths of an inch and incredible consistency goes into every step of the reloading process, you are probably not gaining anything with collet dies.

 

[Smoothie25]

Like others have said if your not turning necks your not going to get the most out of the bushings and can possibly induce runout. Imho getting a forster full length die honed to your specific amount of neck tension is a very cheap way to make accurate ammo and not over work your brass. The Lee collet die has been mentioned. On the two rounds I used it for I was unable to get enough neck tension to prevent bullet movement without buying undersized bushing or modifying the bushing. Plus you still have to use a body or full length die at some point.

I had the same issue with my collet die as well. I couldn't get enough tension to hold the bullet tight. I could push the bullet in the case easily with my thumb. I assumed it was user error bc I haven't heard many people have the same problem.

 

[srogerson]

Thanks for asking the question, DD. I was considering the same thing. Now I think I like the mandrel die idea better, since I do not size necks.

First step for me will likely be buying a few hundred quality pieces of brass from Lapua.

 

[Davew223]

Like others have said if your not turning necks your not going to get the most out of the bushings and can possibly induce runout. Imho getting a forster full length die honed to your specific amount of neck tension is a very cheap way to make accurate ammo and not over work your brass. The Lee collet die has been mentioned. On the two rounds I used it for I was unable to get enough neck tension to prevent bullet movement without buying undersized bushing or modifying the bushing. Plus you still have to use a body or full length die at some point.

If you want more neck tension, just polish the mandrel down, easy to do with a drill or order one that is the size you need. As I remember mine is .004 under. .002 for the press fit and .002 for the spring back of the brass.

I think Redding has the best body die and they also have shell holders kits in .001 increments which will allow you to very accurately bump the shoulder back when you need to. If you don't insist on getting every ounce of velocity you can and keep your pressures down, you hardly ever need to do this.

There is a learning curve with the Lee Collet die setup and the directions are poor but once you get the hang of it, the results are unmatched. Well, almost... if i start with some thick neck brass and turn it down to .0005 under the diameter of the chamber neck. The case will spring back after firing enough for a .002 press fit. No sizing at all, just punch out the primer and reload it. Now I am using a very tight chamber. This would be impossible with a factory rifle.

 

[Davew223]

The thing you need to worry about the most is consistent velocity and dialing your load velocity in to one of the harmonic nodes of your rifle. A chronograph is essential to find the most consistent powder, primer, seating depth etc. combination and then do a ladder test to find your nodes. www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html is a good article for this.

Now do keep in mind that all this applies to developing a precision load for one and only one rifle. If you are loading for multiple rifles, forget about neck sizing, bumping shoulders etc. and follow the recipes in the loading manuals and only use full length sizing dies.

 

[Dell]

Hey all, interested in getting a set of seating dies for my 300 Win Mag, just received a batch of ADG brass and 212 grain ELD-X rounds but never used bushing dies? Have just standard RCBS, is there a real advantage on hunting rounds out to 600 yards? Not a newbe to reloading but always ready to learn.

Bushing bump dies are the only way to go. Will extend the life of your brass. For bolt guns, bump the shoulders back .002 and use a bushing that resizes the neck about .002 less than one of your favorite loaded rounds ( you can play with this measurement to find the neck tension that works best for your particular chambers and situations)
For a great instructional video, go to You Tube and search Whidden Gun Works instructional video on resizing. Great and simple instructions on proper adjustment of a bushing bump die. I use Whidden bushing bump dies on all my rifles from my long range hunters to my FTR High Power .308. You know you have a great die when your neck run out after resizing is .001 or less. I use Forester bench rest seating dies for bullet seating. Again, with the Whidden bushing / bump resizing die and the Forster seating die, overall run out has been consistently .001 or less on my loaded rounds. I used to neck size only (Forster bushing neck die) after fire forming the brass. With my rifle chambers I could get 2-3 neck size only firings before I ran into issues with the bolt starting to close harder than I like. I now full length resize everything with the Whidden full length bushing bump die. There has been NO drop off in accuracy going from neck sizing only to the Whidden FL die. I'm a happy camper! Good luck with your future Reloading endeavors!

 

[freddiej]

I have used all three (standard, bushing, and mandrel) and refuse to ever allow another mandrel die to infest my reloading bench. I have so many friends that swear by them. I am the odd man out; I have a loathing for them that boarders on the phobic. I have bushing dies for my 1,000+ yard guns. I have standard FL dies for the rest of my rifles. I have one or two excepts. I have a second sizing die for my 22-250's. this is a neck only sizing die, I have a second sizing die that is neck only for my 375 H&H. all of my target brass and most all my hunting brass are neck reamed, cut to a uniform length and their flash holes are uniformed and centered. Bushing dies are easy to use if you ream your necks. here is the best way to buy the bushing you will need. first uniform the necks with either an RCBS reaming die and reamer, or you can get one of those neck turning things with the proper expanding mandrel and turning mandrel. then once that is done, size the neck and set a projectile in as if it was a finished round. then measure the outside of the neck with the slug inserted. then subtract 0.001" or 0.002" and buy that bushing. this should give you the best neck tension and most times the starting to the best accuracy when you develop a round specific to your gun. no matter if it is hunting or target; accurate rounds cultivate confidence. confidence is a good thing in the field.

 

[SealT5]

Yes. Switching to a bushing die will produce different results then using a non bushing die. Every .001" in neck tension will shoot different. All of this depends on your particular rifle and ability. None of which matters if other disciplines aren't followed.

Joe S.