Bushing Dies How To?

[aushunter1]

Right... but what I asked(rhetorically) was that even with the bushing out of the die, it SHOULD still bump the shoulder down. What I'm getting at is that I may start using my bushing dies without the bushing, to bump the shoulders, and then use my mandrel due to size the neck.

Then, when I get my neck turning lathe setup, and have consistent neck thickness, I'll re-introduce the bushing to my bushing dies. Make sense?

It will bump the shoulder back if it is a FL bushing die but not if it is a NK bushing die.
2 different dies!

Essentially the FL bushing die without the bushing does the same job as a body die.

 

[dok7mm]

It will bump the shoulder back if it is a FL bushing die but not if it is a NK bushing die.
2 different dies!

Essentially the FL bushing die without the bushing does the same job as a body die.

This is correct. Depends on the die, the normal Redding competition set contains the neck sizer, body die and seater. Only the body die will bump the shoulder in this set.

 

[dok7mm]

Right... but what I asked(rhetorically) was that even with the bushing out of the die, it SHOULD still bump the shoulder down. What I'm getting at is that I may start using my bushing dies without the bushing, to bump the shoulders, and then use my mandrel due to size the neck.

Then, when I get my neck turning lathe setup, and have consistent neck thickness, I'll re-introduce the bushing to my bushing dies. Make sense?

Sorry, as Aushunter said "depends on which die you have". Mine are Redding Competition sets with bushing neck sizer die and only the body die will bump the shoulder. Depending on your die, try it and see.

 

[Don A Parsons]

Tag

 

[bigedp51]

Bushing dies work best with custom tight neck chambers and neck turned brass.

In a standard off the shelf factory rifle with a SAAMI chamber a bushing die will induce neck runout when the neck is reduced .004 or more in diameter. And the Redding bushing FAQ tells you to reduce the neck diameter in two steps to help reduce the amount of case neck runout. And the problem is the majority of standard SAAMI chambers let the neck expand far more than .004. And if you neck turn the cases it lets the neck expand that much more.

The Redding FAQ also tells you if the neck thickness varies .002 or more then use the expander that comes with the die. It also tells you to reduce the neck diameter .004 more than the neck diameter of a cartridge with a seated bullet and use the expander to push the variations to the outside of the case neck. So even with a bushing die and a off the shelf factory rifle you still can end up working the brass a great deal.

And the above reasons are why so many shooters use a Lee collet die in conjunction with a body die. Meaning the Lee collet die will work the neck "less" than a bushing die and produce cases with less neck runout.

Now watch the video below and see that a Forster full length die produces cases with less neck runout than a bushing die. And remember that at the Whidden custom die website they tell you they get the most concentric cases with non-bushing full length dies.

 

[LRJunkie]

Stick with your standard FL dies you will be just fine....

 

[skipglo]

Hey all, interested in getting a set of seating dies for my 300 Win Mag, just received a batch of ADG brass and 212 grain ELD-X rounds but never used bushing dies? Have just standard RCBS, is there a real advantage on hunting rounds out to 600 yards? Not a newbe to reloading but always ready to learn.

IMHO...you would never notice the difference and I have been reloading for 47 years and have used both....however you said seating dies which don't use bushings so I assume you meant Sizing dies...seating dies...look at Forster micrometer seating.. affordable and make a HUGE difference

 

[Double Dropper]

My bad, I did mean bushing dies,

 

[merbeau]

Bushing dies really work best on neck turned brass or brass with very little variation in neck thickness.

If you're goal is consistent neck tension on unturned brass, I would suggest you stick with a full length sizing die (expander ball removed). This should reduce neck ID to 4-5 thou under caliber. Then get a mandrel die with .002" & .003" mandrels ( under your caliber) to open necks prior to seating your bullets.

I've found this method will give you more consistent neck tension, from round to round, than using a bushing die on unturned necks. Mandrel dies and precision mandrels are available from K&M, Sinclair, 21st Century and several other sources in increments of .0005", and are usually cheaper than bushing dies.

This is the exact method I use for my comp rifles. I use Lapua brass which has very uniform neck thickness and the Sinclair carbide mandrel and holder. Your rifle may like either 0.001 or 0.002 tension the best. Mine liked 0.002 but found that I had to adjust powder charge after adding this step to my reloading to maintain prior accuracy. Of course all of this is for a comp rifle. Not sure such effort is necessary for hunting round. There is a possibility with rounds in the magazine with light neck tension upon recoil having the bullet move deeper into the case causing potentially an increase in pressure. I personally have not experienced this but then my rifles are not heavy recoiling 6.5x55 Swede SE, 25-284 Win and 243 Win.

 

[CHRIS ADDI]

To use the bushing die, you insert the bushing into the top of the die and tighten the nut that holds the bushing in place. You don't want it to hold the bushing tight, you should be able to hear the bushing rattle a bit when you shake the die. A good place to start with your bushing size: Measure the thickness of the brass at the neck, double that then add the measured diameter of the bullet, Subtract 0.001. You may want to get a set of bushings that span 3 - 4 thousandths so you can play with neck tension until you get it where you want it.

eg: Bullet diameter 0.308", brass 0.015" - (2*0.015) + 0.308 = 0.338 I would start with a 0.337 bushing but I would want a 0.336 bushing to try as well.

When the brass is properly sized you will notice that the neck is not sized all the way to the shoulder. You can adjust the die to size the neck the depth you want.

I started using a bushing die when I got my 6.5x47 and I really like it.

also works for me on the 6.5x47 , but I'm trying to load 7mm Blaser mag and cant find bushing dies for that load , only a standard set from Redding

 

[Double Dropper]

HA HA we are back to the start, will I see any benefit to using bushing dies/mandrels in a hunting rifle shooting out to 600 yards (self imposed limit) ??

 

[Jzeman56]

check out Panhandle Precision... Sam has a series of reloading videos that are very good and he explains how to setup the RCBS bushing dies, etc. He walks you through the entire process for both unfired (new) and fired brass. Well worth watching.

 

[Davew223]

In a word, don't. The collet die setup from Lee is a better system. Instead of having to turn your necks down to a specific diameter and then press that brass up into the bushing (which can induce runout,) the collet system has a floating mandrel that the neck is squashed down on to with the force applied perpendicular to the neck instead of in-line. The other dies are all superior in materials and machining but inferior in design. Not to mention the fact that it is WAY cheaper. Sub .15" (not a typo) groups at 100 with a 7Mag don't lie. A lot more went in to getting these groups than just the dies (heavy Kreiger barrel, chassis, optics, trigger, action, brass prep, etc.) but they are a big part of it.

 

[Davew223]

If you do get the Lee Collet Neck Sizing Die, call them up and get them to send you an extra cap, you will probably bust the first one while you are setting it up if you are using a cam over press like a Rock Chucker. You want the end of the squeeze to be at the end of the stroke. If the end of the squeeze occurs during the caming action, the leverage is so high that it will rip the threads out of the cap. This again is ingenuous in their design. The part that breaks is designed to be a cheap, easy to replace part.