Bushing Dies How To?

[Double Dropper]

Hey all, interested in getting a set of seating dies for my 300 Win Mag, just received a batch of ADG brass and 212 grain ELD-X rounds but never used bushing dies? Have just standard RCBS, is there a real advantage on hunting rounds out to 600 yards? Not a newbe to reloading but always ready to learn.

 

[YZ-80]

Well I've always used RCBS but stated using bushing dies a couple years ago. I think the main advantage is the controll they give you over neck tension, which comes into play as a variable you would benefit from being able to control at 600 yards. I use Redding Type-S bushing dies and am quite happy with them. They are also great when it comes to minimal run- out. Good luck!

 

[Double Dropper]

Very cool, how do you use them LOL

 

[Rick Richard]

To be openly honest, I have and use both Bushing and standard dies and can't see any difference in a 'hunting' rifle load within the distance mentioned. I see more of difference, which translates into tighter groups when I anneal cases after every firing.

 

[dok7mm]

Bushing dies really work best on neck turned brass or brass with very little variation in neck thickness.

If you're goal is consistent neck tension on unturned brass, I would suggest you stick with a full length sizing die (expander ball removed). This should reduce neck ID to 4-5 thou under caliber. Then get a mandrel die with .002" & .003" mandrels ( under your caliber) to open necks prior to seating your bullets.

I've found this method will give you more consistent neck tension, from round to round, than using a bushing die on unturned necks. Mandrel dies and precision mandrels are available from K&M, Sinclair, 21st Century and several other sources in increments of .0005", and are usually cheaper than bushing dies.

 

[Double Dropper]

Never heard of that! so a couple of steps but consistent tension.

 

[dsculley]

To use the bushing die, you insert the bushing into the top of the die and tighten the nut that holds the bushing in place. You don't want it to hold the bushing tight, you should be able to hear the bushing rattle a bit when you shake the die. A good place to start with your bushing size: Measure the thickness of the brass at the neck, double that then add the measured diameter of the bullet, Subtract 0.001. You may want to get a set of bushings that span 3 - 4 thousandths so you can play with neck tension until you get it where you want it.

eg: Bullet diameter 0.308", brass 0.015" - (2*0.015) + 0.308 = 0.338 I would start with a 0.337 bushing but I would want a 0.336 bushing to try as well.

When the brass is properly sized you will notice that the neck is not sized all the way to the shoulder. You can adjust the die to size the neck the depth you want.

I started using a bushing die when I got my 6.5x47 and I really like it.

 

[Double Dropper]

Dennis, did you see a difference in grouping?

 

[dok7mm]

Yes, I turn all my brass for numerous rifles and have used bushing dies on all of them, I have found using the mandrel system gives me more consistent neck tension and long range consistency than I ever got with my bushing dies.

It is an extra step, but with a bushing die you have to bump the shoulder with a body die, then size your neck, so it evens out.

Many advanced shooters here use the mandrels and love it.

 

[Rick Richard]

To use the bushing die, you insert the bushing into the top of the die and tighten the nut that holds the bushing in place. You don't want it to hold the bushing tight, you should be able to hear the bushing rattle a bit when you shake the die. A good place to start with your bushing size: Measure the thickness of the brass at the neck, double that then add the measured diameter of the bullet, Subtract 0.001. You may want to get a set of bushings that span 3 - 4 thousandths so you can play with neck tension until you get it where you want it.

eg: Bullet diameter 0.308", brass 0.015" - (2*0.015) + 0.308 = 0.338 I would start with a 0.337 bushing but I would want a 0.336 bushing to try as well.

When the brass is properly sized you will notice that the neck is not sized all the way to the shoulder. You can adjust the die to size the neck the depth you want.

I started using a bushing die when I got my 6.5x47 and I really like it.

Another method is to just measure the OD of a loaded round and subtract the tension difference desired. For hunting use, I like 3 thousands or even greater neck tension. Good luck!

 

[Braunschweiger]

Yes, I turn all my brass for numerous rifles and have used bushing dies on all of them, I have found using the mandrel system gives me more consistent neck tension and long range consistency than I ever got with my bushing dies.

It is an extra step, but with a bushing die you have to bump the shoulder with a body die, then size your neck, so it evens out.

Many advanced shooters here use the mandrels and love it.

I perform a similar function, however, I do use my bushings even on unturned brass (I have a neck turning kit but want to purchase the 21st century neck turning lathe.)

Wouldn't even a bushing style die without the bushing inserted still bump the shoulder? Or would you have to specifically purchase a FL sizing die (non bushing style)

Reason i ask is that ALL of my dies are bushing style and I have the mandrels for my sinclair die.

 

[dok7mm]

I perform a similar function, however, I do use my bushings even on unturned brass (I have a neck turning kit but want to purchase the 21st century neck turning lathe.)

Wouldn't even a bushing style die without the bushing inserted still bump the shoulder? Or would you have to specifically purchase a FL sizing die (non bushing style)

Reason i ask is that ALL of my dies are bushing style and I have the mandrels for my sinclair die.

I have Redding bushing dies and they won't size the neck down with bushing removed, nor will the body die reduce the neck ID. So, I bought Forester FL dies for most rifles.

I will add that bushings push variance of unturned necks inside the neck diameter, causing that variance to be reflected on your tension. Spring back variance is away from the bullet, so that could also be another problem.

A mandrel pushes neck wall variance to the outside, leaving a near perfect ID, plus spring back is towards the bullet. I use Imperial Dry lube on a Q-TIP inside the neck when expanding with a mandrel. Seating pressures are very smooth and consistent and I have low SDs & ES.

I believe that when using unturned or skimmed brass, the mandrel is the way to go. I do have several rifles I still use bushing dies on. Brass is turned for .004" chamber neck clearance. But I use a .003" under caliber bushing and then a .002" mandrel to set my final tension. Hope this makes sense!

 

[Braunschweiger]

I have Redding bushing dies and they won't size the neck down with bushing removed, nor will the body die reduce the neck ID. So, I bought Forester FL dies for most rifles.

I will add that bushings push variance of unturned necks inside the neck diameter, causing that variance to be reflected on your tension. Spring back variance is away from the bullet, so that could also be another problem.

A mandrel pushes neck wall variance to the outside, leaving a near perfect ID, plus spring back is towards the bullet. I use Imperial Dry lube on a Q-TIP inside the neck when expanding with a mandrel. Seating pressures are very smooth and consistent and I have low SDs & ES.

I believe that when using unturned or skimmed brass, the mandrel is the way to go. I do have several rifles I still use bushing dies on. Brass is turned for .004" chamber neck clearance. But I use a .003" under caliber bushing and then a .002" mandrel to set my final tension. Hope this makes sense!

Right... but what I asked(rhetorically) was that even with the bushing out of the die, it SHOULD still bump the shoulder down. What I'm getting at is that I may start using my bushing dies without the bushing, to bump the shoulders, and then use my mandrel due to size the neck.

Then, when I get my neck turning lathe setup, and have consistent neck thickness, I'll re-introduce the bushing to my bushing dies. Make sense?

 

[Rick Richard]

Right... but what I asked(rhetorically) was that even with the bushing out of the die, it SHOULD still bump the shoulder down. What I'm getting at is that I may start using my bushing dies without the bushing, to bump the shoulders, and then use my mandrel due to size the neck.

Then, when I get my neck turning lathe setup, and have consistent neck thickness, I'll re-introduce the bushing to my bushing dies. Make sense?

Yep