Bullet failures

[Hard rock]

The first deer I shot when I was 13 yrs old in 1963 Nov22nd, was a 11 point buck shot through the shoulders, with a 139 gr Norma 6.5 x55 Swedish Mauser at about 100 yds and the deer was DRT, with a big exit and he didn't pivot ,or turn in circles. Was that bullet failure?

 

[LVJ76]

Any kind of deer simply cannot run with both shoulders broken. It however is entirely possible for a bullet to go through a shoulder blade, destroy the heart and lungs and go through the other shoulder without breaking either shoulder bone especially if the wrong type of bullet is used. If the shoulders break the deer will fall forward and try to move by pushing with it's rear legs only since the front ones won't respond to muscle inputs if broken and will only flop and it will not move very far if at all or will turn around in circles pivoting on the useless front legs.

Well then, you haven't.

I've always observed the damage of the bullets used on the animals we have hunted. It has always interested me since I was a kid.

In that occasion, the lungs were severely damaged. Now the deer didn't take off on a full sprint, it had some use of it's front legs and managed to cover some ground.

Bullet or shooter failure? Neither.

In a separate occasion, and I have mentioned this one here a time or two before. I put two Partitions on a coues, 2" apart behind the shoulder. Took a third shot to bring him down, bullets pretty much penciled through. Definitely shooter error. Partitions need hard muscle or bone to properly expand.

 

[Hard rock]

Well then, you haven't.

I've always observed the damage of the bullets used on the animals we have hunted. It has always interested me since I was a
In that occasion, the lungs were severely damaged. Now the deer didn't take off on a full sprint, it had some use of it's front legs and managed to cover some ground.

Bullet or shooter failure? Neither.

In a separate occasion, and I have mentioned this one here a time or two before. I put two Partitions on a coues, 2" apart behind the shoulder. Took a third shot to bring him down, bullets pretty much penciled through. Definitely shooter error. Partitions need hard muscle or bone to properly expand.

My daughter in law shot a big mule deer buck on my ranch with a 100 gr 25 cal Nosler Partition,and we never found the entrance or exit ,but was mush on the insides . It was such a bloody mess I quit looking for the bullet is was cold outside. Explain that . We looked real hard for a entrance no hole , no blood.

 

[LVJ76]

My daughter in law shot a big mule deer buck on my ranch with a 100 gr 25 cal Nosler Partition,and we never found the entrance or exit ,but was mush on the insides . It was such a bloody mess I quit looking for the bullet is was cold outside. Explain that . We looked real hard for a entrance no hole , no blood.

Bullers can do some unexplained things. You kill enough animals and you'll see some of these crazy things.

 

[6.5saum/300rum]

I've had bullet failure one time. I thought it was my shot early in the hunt but after hitting a second bull and finally killing it I believe it was bullet failure. I was on an elk hunt in Nevada. I shot a beautiful 6 point bull in his bed at 514 yards and had a spotter that said I made a perfect shot his head flipped down and his legs kicked one time and I watched him for what I felt like 5 minutes before I got up to walk to him. When I started walking I looked over and spotted him hunched up but by the time I got on him he was gone over the ridge. I tracked him over a mile to the bottom of the ridge and up the other side before I lost blood and his track.

Fast forward 6 days later I went in on 3 bedded bulls and they jumped I shot one at 180 yards quartering away from me it hit halfway down his ribs at a perfect angle to his front shoulder and it sounded solid. Went up and no blood or nothing to go off of. So I did my best to track frozen elk tracks on a north facing ridge. Two hours later I jumped the bull and he took off all I had was a shot going away so I took it hit and he turned to my left so I shot again and hit again and he slowed down so I shot him two more times he was 368 yards. He was finally hurt bad and got a little closer and shot him two more times in the neck at about 100 yards. He was still alive when I went up to him. I had cut his throat. I felt so bad when I made it to him but was relieved at the same. He didn't go to waist. After I started butchering I could see that not one of my bullets had penetrated more than about 3 inches even the two that I placed behind the shoulder after he turned. The two in the neck didn't make it in far enough to do any fatal damage. So I was shooting a 7lrm with 180 hunting vlds at 2970 FPS. I probably had a bad box of bullets but I will never shoot Berger's at elk again. I've killed several deer with them since.

 

[WildRose]

I would label it a failure if a hunting bullet doesn't expand and it is supposed to. Barnes.

Bullets that don't penetrate because they came apart on Shoulder shot is rarely a failure of the bullet, but more a failure of the hunter to pick proper placement for the bullet chosen.

If you are going to shoot a bullet designed to expand at lower velocities (Berger) why do people insist the bullet failed when they shoot shoulders at 60 yards? Or inversely, why try to use monos to shoot lungs at a greater distance and lower velocity? Again it's Shooter error.
When a bullet fails to expand on a close shot it failed. (Not including solids on dangerous game)

If you hunt areas where close shots are fairly common why would you load fragile bullets in the gun and choose to shoot at the shoulders? Why expect a solid copper bullet to expand at low velocity? Do people really think there isn't a difference?

Why not load the gun with a stout constructed bullet that shoots good enough up close to shoot wherever you want, and a long range choice available for long shots. Long shots aren't quick, and ejecting a mono to load an Accubond or Berger that's exactly what is needed in that situation will not take enough time to matter.

I surmise that blaming bullets is easier than admitting failure.

I agree. I see very few actual "bullet failures", I have seen them however.

What I see much more commonly is people using a bullet for jobs that the bullet was never designed or intended for.

Match the bullet to the game, the intended point of impact, and the range and don't ask them to perform miracles.

 

[Hard rock]

I agree. I see very few actual "bullet failures", I have seen them however.

What I see much more commonly is people using a bullet for jobs that the bullet was never designed or intended for.

Match the bullet to the game, the intended point of impact, and the range and don't ask them to perform miracles.

I agree but I want a well constructed bullet that I can depend on performing the same everytime.that will give me a margin of shooter error. I have found that with the Hammer so far , time will tell I've used and have had mixed results with Barnes ,Speer, Hornady and Nosler .

 

[Hard rock]

I agree but I want a well constructed bullet that I can depend on performing the same everytime.that will give me a margin of shooter error. I have found that with the Hammer so far , time will tell I've used and have had mixed results with Barnes ,Speer, Hornady and Nosler .

One example of so called bullet failure ,more my fault, a young hunter with no knowledge of bullet construction. I shot a big body South Texas buck , with a 270 win loaded with a Sierra 130 gr game king right on top of the shoulder . The bullet blew up with the entire shoulder blade exposed . The next shot put him down , on a running shot through his neck. I'm not that good of a shot off hand anymore , so prefer deep penetrating bullets that give me a exit hopefully everytime

 

[Teri Anne]

The first deer I shot when I was 13 yrs old in 1963 Nov22nd, was a 11 point buck shot through the shoulders, with a 139 gr Norma 6.5 x55 Swedish Mauser at about 100 yds and the deer was DRT, with a big exit and he didn't pivot ,or turn in circles. Was that bullet failure?

I would have to say it was not a bullet or any kind of failure. I would have to say it was a job well done. Perfect shot with a very adequate rifle at a more than reasonable range resulting in a very clean kill. You did well as did your rifle and bullet combination. Congratulations on being a ETHICAL HUNTER.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I would have to say it was not a bullet or any kind of failure. I would have to say it was a job well done. Perfect shot with a very adequate rifle at a more than reasonable range resulting in a very clean kill. You did well as did your rifle and bullet combination. Congratulations on being a ETHICAL HUNTER.

I think we're all fall into "ETHICAL HUNTER. "

 

[Mike D Texas]

Well then, you haven't.

I've always observed the damage of the bullets used on the animals we have hunted. It has always interested me since I was a kid.

In that occasion, the lungs were severely damaged. Now the deer didn't take off on a full sprint, it had some use of it's front legs and managed to cover some ground.

Bullet or shooter failure? Neither.

In a separate occasion, and I have mentioned this one here a time or two before. I put two Partitions on a coues, 2" apart behind the shoulder. Took a third shot to bring him down, bullets pretty much penciled through. Definitely shooter error. Partitions need hard muscle or bone to properly expand.

Not discounting your experience but my experience with partitions has been vastly different.

I did not see you mention what caliber you used, but I have killed a truck bed full of small Texas white tails shooting them behind the shoulder with 125 grain Partitions from a 260 Remington with massive damage.

With meeting PrimArily eight Bowhunter I always went for the heart shot even with a rifle. It would literally paint all the cactus red when they would run and they would rarely make it more than 30 yards.

 

[LVJ76]

Not discounting your experience but my experience with partitions has been vastly different.

I did not see you mention what caliber you used, but I have killed a truck bed full of small Texas white tails shooting them behind the shoulder with 125 grain Partitions from a 260 Remington with massive damage.

With meeting PrimArily eight Bowhunter I always went for the heart shot even with a rifle. It would literally paint all the cactus red when they would run and they would rarely make it more than 30 yards.

Hey Mike, it was with a 270 Win and 130gr Partition. We used partitions and gamekings the most when I was growing up, didn't have access to anything else. The partition always worked but that one kill got stuck in my head. I can remember like it was yesterday.

We ended up tanning that hide, that coues deer has an all white tail, back and front and the rest of the body was a cinnamon brownish color, instead of their normal gray.

Might have been a bad batch of partitions, who knows.

 

[Teri Anne]

Well then, you haven't.

I've always observed the damage of the bullets used on the animals we have hunted. It has always interested me since I was a kid.

In that occasion, the lungs were severely damaged. Now the deer didn't take off on a full sprint, it had some use of it's front legs and managed to cover some ground.

Bullet or shooter failure? Neither.

In a separate occasion, and I have mentioned this one here a time or two before. I put two Partitions on a coues, 2" apart behind the shoulder. Took a third shot to bring him down, bullets pretty much penciled through. Definitely shooter error. Partitions need hard muscle or bone to properly expand.

About the only shooter error I can see from what you have described is that you were using the wrong bullet for the animal. I have been using Nosler partitions in both the .308 and .270 for many years. The only partition that I ever had blow through was a 130 gr partition shot at a small doe at 50 yards. The round was factory not a hand load. It was a Federal Premium Nosler Partition 130 gr. It left the muzzle of my Tikka T3x at around 3060 fps and at 50 yards had only slowed to about 2945 fps. Energy wise it had dropped from around 2703 ft lbs down to 2507 ft lbs. It hit the deer behind the shoulder between the ribs and blew out the other side only leaving a hole about 3/4 inch in diameter. Didn't matter since the deer dropped in place and never moved with it's heart blown in half and lungs pulverized as the bullet zipped through. The cause for the lack of expansion was not bullet failure but the fact that the bullet hit so fast and so hard and between ribs that the bullet barely had time to do much of any expanding before it passed through the other side. Think about it, travelling at 2507 fps how long does it take to transverse maybe 12 to 6 inches through a small deer?
You didn't mention what the caliber was of the rifle or the size of the partition fired both of which have a pronounced effect on what a bullet does. If I had been shooting my .308 chance are that the bullet would not have zipped through so fast and would have had more time to expand. To be honest I have never had a .308 partition exit any deer I have shot with it, most of them dropping on the spot and the bullet fully expanded recovered when dressing out the deer.

 

[WildRose]

I agree but I want a well constructed bullet that I can depend on performing the same everytime.that will give me a margin of shooter error. I have found that with the Hammer so far , time will tell I've used and have had mixed results with Barnes ,Speer, Hornady and Nosler .

I'm the same way. I want predictable, proven, consistent performance.

If you have that and adjust your shot placement accordingly you're going to succeed about every time if you do your part.