Bullet failures

[Buckys]

I have seen direct evidence of unbonded lead bullets "exploding upon impact". Less than 100yds, 270wsm, 130 grains, broadside - first shot was in the boiler room, did not penetrate and left plenty of superficial damage to demonstrate POI. The follow-up shot was the kill shot.

My hunting friend who made the shots became convinced that the specific brand/model of bullet was bad and I'm still trying to convince him that any of the other cup and core lead bullets would have done the same thing.

 

[73driver]

I have seen direct evidence of unbonded lead bullets "exploding upon impact". Less than 100yds, 270wsm, 130 grains, broadside - first shot was in the boiler room, did not penetrate and left plenty of superficial damage to demonstrate POI. The follow-up shot was the kill shot.

My hunting friend who made the shots became convinced that the specific brand/model of bullet was bad and I'm still trying to convince him that any of the other cup and core lead bullets would have done the same thing.

This. I do not get this because it is so random. I shot one spike bull at under 50 yards with a Sierra 30 cal 165 gr going about 2880 fps at impact. This cup and core had full penetration. Mule deer doe at 40 yards 140 gr Sierra flat base spire point (about as cup and core as there is) at 2900 fps on impact make full pass through the boiler room. A dozen more lethal hits on deer 75-125 yards with cup and core and not a single blowup-failure to penetrate. First, none were magnum cartridges, 30-06, 270 Win and 7-08. Second, just a plain Jane Sierra basic bullet, no fancy name with letters like TNT, ICBM etc or a plastic tip. Is it the magnum velocities? Are there batches of bullet lead that are just brittle? The amazing accounts are that a 30 cal 210 grain bullet vaporizes on the hide. HUH? I would think a hunk of lead that big would throw at least several decent fragments through the onside lung. But a big bullet coming apart like it hit a slab of steel is hard to comprehend. If you say it happened I believe you. At the same time I am thinking it's very odd and what could cause such an anomaly. I do have a good bit of experience with cup and core on deer and elk and maybe not enough or I would eventually experience such a failure.

 

[BigNate]

Even within this thread examples given as failures I would argue many were a error in judgement.

Just because the bullet didn't produce the outcome you expected doesn't always mean it failed to perform, it may mean you don't know as much about bullet performance as you think you know.

That's a tough thing for some people to admit.

If you load soft bullets that you expect to expand at lower velocity for long range, then shoot shoulders at 1/5 the distance is it realistic to expect the same results?

Likewise, if you choose a "tougher" mono bullet to avoid splash up close, but then put it in the ribs at lower velocity because of a long shot should you expect good expansion?

I'm not saying failure to perform is unheard of, but it's very much out of the norm if you are using the right bullets for your particular situation. Sometimes you should choose a different POA for your bullet, sometimes a different bullet is the answer for your preffered POA.

The only way to know what your combination will do is to test it, and most I would suspect simply don't other than to go out hunting with their choice.

 

[Rich Coyle]

I wonder if they beefed up the jackets on those for 7mm RM and 7 RUM.

I don't know about the 140 BT, but the 120 was toughened up to stay together on the 500 meter rams in silhouette.

 

[Rich Coyle]

None of the comments related to hammers that I saw were about bullet failures, they were about their admittedly low bc, so I'm not really sure where this upset is coming from, and why it is being dragged into yet another thread.

I personally have only read of two people have legitimate data backed issues with them, but I did not witness them myself so I can't comment. For the most part, terminally, they are pretty predictable, and compared to other bullets have a low ratio of failure reports. Every bullet however can fail.

Please tell us what the "legitimate data backed issues with them (Hammer bullets)" have been. This is about bullet failure, so I am all eyes.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Most "bullet failures" happen when they are at ranges they weren't intended to perform at. The only thing I've seen happen was I shot a bear at 75 yards with a 180 ttsx out of a 300rum (3280fps) and it penciled right through. I recovered him a ways later. That being said I've never not had that same setup open up as intended on all my other kills (200 yards and farther). So was it a failure or was the bullet simply not made to open up at such high velocity? The latter is the correct answer.

I think you should check with Barnes on this opinion!

 

[Rich Coyle]

Why don't you guys ever talk about Sierra bullets I have used them for over 50 yrs and killed 81 head of elk from 20 yds out to 900 yds mostly from a 7mm-300 wby and never lost a elk Grizz

Welcome to the forum, Dgrizz80. Were you born in 1980? Or are you 80 years old or maybe I should ask what the "80" is for?

By the way, this thread is about bullet failure, not bullet success. It seems many are doing what we on the internet do: Go off topic 'cause we can and want to. I'm hoping you share some specific hunt successes when there is a thread on "Successful hunts."

 

[can1010]

Please tell us what the "legitimate data backed issues with them (Hammer bullets)" have been. This is about bullet failure, so I am all eyes.

I know Hammer bullets changed copper alloys multiple times since the beginning to help improve performance and also changed hollow point diameters since the beginning maybe those were some of the complaints about failure came from. I think that is worked out but i dont follow Hammer anymore because it always gets to supporter and then nothing comes from it

 

[bassassassin104]

My hunting partner had one fail to expand a few years back. I was spotting for him. We had a very nice mature heavy horned 8 point that was as regular as a clock. Opening morning he came in and my buddy got a 175 yard shot at him. I watched the deer run 50 yards into the tree line and was expecting to see him fall over, instead he casually walked out of sight. We checked the area the deer was standing. No sign of blood and no hair. We double checked the area where the deer ran into the woods and had stood for 30 seconds or more and there was no blood. We talked over the scenario multiple times and my partner was certain he had made a good shot. We checked everything again and I found the bullet impact in the dirt behind where the deer was standing. We assumed a clean miss, looked at the angle of where we were and where the impact was found and thought perhaps it was just below the deer. We walked a few circles just for good measure but came to the conclusion it must have been a clean miss. 2 days later, after verifying the rifle zero and checking the camera and him not showing up at all, we got a couple other guys and combed the woods thoroughly. We got lucky and found the deer under an evergreen 200 yards away dead. .264" hole through both shoulders. My buddy had made a perfect shot but the bullet had penciled through.

 

[Spoonman]

I think you should check with Barnes on this opinion!

I don't need to check with anyone. Simply going off my experience. Also it's the experience of others on forums that have said they have "bullet failures". I don't really believe in bullet failures that much. Like I've said each bullet has its intended use and velocity. You could literally tell everyone on this forum that has an opinion on something to call and check with someone about it.

 

[codyadams]

Please tell us what the "legitimate data backed issues with them (Hammer bullets)" have been. This is about bullet failure, so I am all eyes.

It was quite a long time ago that I read about it, and another person that had the experience, not I, all I remember is they were using the bullet within it's parameters with an appropriate twist, and it performed less than expected. Due to those issues, I will not attempt to spread third party partial information, the issues may have been resolved or there may have been more to the story. The comment was more of an applaud to the bullets, to say that there seems to be (relative to other bullets) very little complaints about them, not trying to point out specific problems.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Rich Coyle posted
"Please tell us what the "legitimate data backed issues with them (Hammer bullets)" have been. This is about bullet failure, so I am all eyes."

I know Hammer bullets changed copper alloys multiple times since the beginning to help improve performance and also changed hollow point diameters since the beginning maybe those were some of the complaints about failure came from. I think that is worked out but i dont follow Hammer anymore because it always gets to ****** and then nothing comes from it

Well then, where are the folks who actually complained? That IS what this thread is suppose to be about, NOT "maybe those were some of the complaints about failure came from,"

 

[WildRose]

I have seen direct evidence of unbonded lead bullets "exploding upon impact". Less than 100yds, 270wsm, 130 grains, broadside - first shot was in the boiler room, did not penetrate and left plenty of superficial damage to demonstrate POI. The follow-up shot was the kill shot.

My hunting friend who made the shots became convinced that the specific brand/model of bullet was bad and I'm still trying to convince him that any of the other cup and core lead bullets would have done the same thing.

With high enough impact velocity that's a realistic possibility for just about all non bonded or mono's.

The exception would be the Partition of course but I've seen them cause a massive shallow wound on impact at close range then just pencil through with what was left.

Our modern high velocity rounds simply have too much energy at short range so it would be best to stick to rounds with less than 2800fps at the muzzle for short range hunting wherever possible.

 

[Canhunter35]

The physiology of a relaxed deer vs one surging with adrenaline is vastly different, from taught muscles to a racing heart, etc. a few years ago I shot a big bodied Muley at 50yards, center punched his chest with a 115ballistic tip from a 257wby, in the past I'd had quite a few quick drops from this combo, this deer ran a 100yards missing part of his lungs and heart. This past fall my wife used my 7rem mag and the 180hybrid to drop a mule deer at 832yards, right where he was standing, his legs folded and I didn't even see a kick. The internal damage on the 50 yards muley was vastly more, but I spooked him and I shot as he was jumping up to run and sometimes the will to live exceeds all our expectations as hunters. These are not bullet failures.
In my experience, I don't look for an exit wound, I look inside to see how much damage there is. The more internal damage the greater the chance that animal is dying quickly, I don't want to bleed them out I want to shut down enough organs or nerves they drop in shock and quickly expire. When shooting long range I always factor wind into my shot placement to give me the greatest margin of error. With the slower bullets I want something frangible but a long enough bullet even if ur on top of the shoulder blade that bullet will still drive through and get into the important parts. I don't need the bullet to go through the animal, just reach better than halfway.