bullet expansion test results

[RockyMtnMT]

We are going to do aome testing this afternoon on a high fraging30cal bullet. Idea is to have a bullet that will retain about 40% of its weight. Should be what the fragmenting bullet crowd is looking for. For those 'energy dump' guys.

Steve

 

[Edd]

Barnes told me their bullets start as a cylinder shape with a big hole. Then they are formed by a set of progressive dies. The fractures lines are formed during that process.

 

[Wedgy]

My early 300 Blackout with star bit nose and break away tip so it would tumble.

 

[lamiglas]

Tagging in.. Nice work.

 

[yorke-1]

Anymore updates? Loving this thread so far. I also have some cutting edge bullets in 155 grain that don't stabilize in my factory 7 SAUM if you would like to give them a run.

Reuben

No new tests this weekend, I spent Saturday getting a bunch of new shooters their first hits at 750, 850, and 950 yards. I wanted to set the leather up at the 950 yard mark but I didn't actually get a chance to shoot all day! Today was spent trying to get loads ready to go for next weekend. I checked the numbers and I can probably get the 155 CE bullets fast enough to give them a go out of the 1:9'" twist 284. If not, I can steal back my 7mm RUM from a buddy and test them in there.

Next test will be another round with the 140gr VLD using the same load that I tested the 143 ELD with to try and get a fair comparison. Add to that the 181gr Hammer for the 300 Win Mag, 250gr Berger Elite and a retest of the 300gr OTM and 300gr Elite 338s along with a few more Sledge Hammers and maybe a couple of 7mm bullets from the 284. If I have time I'll get to some of the .358s and .375s and some more .243s.

 

[elkaholic]

No new tests this weekend, I spent Saturday getting a bunch of new shooters their first hits at 750, 850, and 950 yards. I wanted to set the leather up at the 950 yard mark but I didn't actually get a chance to shoot all day! Today was spent trying to get loads ready to go for next weekend. I checked the numbers and I can probably get the 155 CE bullets fast enough to give them a go out of the 1:9'" twist 284. If not, I can steal back my 7mm RUM from a buddy and test them in there.

Next test will be another round with the 140gr VLD using the same load that I tested the 143 ELD with to try and get a fair comparison. Add to that the 181gr Hammer for the 300 Win Mag, 250gr Berger Elite and a retest of the 300gr OTM and 300gr Elite 338s along with a few more Sledge Hammers and maybe a couple of 7mm bullets from the 284. If I have time I'll get to some of the .358s and .375s and some more .243s.

WHEW! You're making me tired just reading this!.......Rich

 

[RockyMtnMT]

I don't want to take away from Yorkes great work here but it seems like a good place to add to his results. We did some low and high vel impact testing yesterday with some new bullets and a couple new ideas for bullets. Our media is pretty simple. 1 gallon milk jug in front of news paper to stop the bullet. We want to see that the bullet has fully expanded in the milk jug. Paper dry or wet makes no difference in bullet performance other than how far it penetrates. Wet paper stops them a bit faster.

The first bullet we tested was 152g Hammer Hunter that we modified to make it more frangible. Bullet weight after modification is 150g. We were looking for about 40% weight retention and we came in at 35%. Gotta love it when it works as planned. We will be able to do this with pretty much all of the Hammer line for those who like the highly frangible bullets. They will be super devastating but will need to shot with careful attention to the orientation of the animal like any other frangible bullet. Right now we are thinking we will call this bullet the Dead Blow Hammer.


First shot was for low vel. It was not as low as we wanted but showed exactly as we expected. The 152g original Hammer Hunter has tested good below 1800fps and there is no reason to believe that the 150g Dead Blow Hammer will be any different. Impact vel here was 1910fps. 148.8g of bullet recovered with 49g of retained weight. The bullet shank and petals were recovered together in the media with the petals spaced equally around the shank in a 2" dia. pattern. Penetration distance was 6" of milk jug and about 6" of tight packed news paper.


This pic is of the same 150g Dead Blow Hammer fired from a 30-06 with an impact vel of 2700fps. Retained weight was 53.1g and total weight of recovered bullet was 143.6g. Penetration was about the same as the low vel but with a pattern about an inch larger in dia.


This pic is of the 150g Dead Blow Hammer with an impact vel of 3457fps with a retained weight of 46.3g and total recovered weight of 122.1g. This impact was quite spectacular with about a 5" wound channel and a total of about 12" of penetration.

The next bullet tested was the 375cal 252g Sledge Hammer. We only fired one of this bullet with the quest to see low vel deformation. High vel impacts are never a problem and no new data was needed here.



Impact vel was 1572fps with 226g retained. This bullet penetrated about 2ft of media and was fully opened in the first 6" (inside the milk jug).

Next on the list was the 6.5mm 117g Sledge Hammer. This one we went ahead and shot a high and low vel test.


Left to right: Unfired, high vel, and low vel. The high vel impact was 2917fps with retained weight of 97.8g. Low vel impact was at 1464fps with retained weight of 101.5g. Both of these bullets penetrated nearly 2ft. 84% and 87% weight retention. Good stuff!!

Next bullet tested was the 113g .277cal Sledge Hammer. One bullet fired for low vel testing.


Impact vel here was 1663fps with a retained weight of 93.8g 83% retention. Perfect!!

Next test was the gopher getter. This is an 18g Hammer Hunter in 17cal that we previously tested at 19g with higher weight retention. So I think we will have to call this one a Dead Blow Hammer too. This little bullet easily reached 3800fps in the 17 Hornet with 10g of Lil Gun. Should be getting out to slay a pile of gophers in the next month with this guy. I would say that this bullet will work great for larger targets than gophers too. We have 19g and 20g versions that will work well for coyotes and such too. I will get these loaded on the website very soon.


Impact vel here was apx 3800fps. Mag Speed did not read as I forgot to turn up the sensitivity. Prior loading says that it was at least 3800fps. For this test we put two milk jugs in line. Hope was that it would not make it out of the first jug. First jug had total devastation and the second jug had a tiny hole in and out with the retained bullet just stuck in to the cardboard box that was holding the news paper. Retained weight of 6.9g for 38% retained.

Many of our low vel tests are showing good performance lower than the advertised 1800fps min that we maintain. 1800fps is what we advertise because this what we consider the lowest vel to offer the best terminal performance. People can choose their own vel floor if they so choose.

Steve

 

[RockyMtnMT]

Here is the 17cal pic

Steve

 

[rickiesrevenge]

That .17 looks neat! Would make the .17-250 post some big numbers!

Aaron

 

[AKGuide]

Got the go ahead from yorke to add my recent finding. I recovered a 7mm 150 grain Swift Scirocco original, not the scirocco II, from a decent sized bull caribou. Bull was shot at a touch over 500 yards with my 7 SAUM pushing the pills at 3000fps. Bullet placement was a high shoulder shot connecting with both shoulders and the bottom of the spine. Penetration was 11"-13" and retention was 127.5 grains for an even 80% weight retention. Max expansion was 0.675" and one side of the bullet was much flatter which I believe is the side that contacted the spine. Impact velocity is roughly 2050fps at this range. Here are the pics.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

That .17 looks neat! Would make the .17-250 post some big numbers!

Aaron

Oh boy that would be a fast one. Just guessing high 4000's. You need to get some just so I can hear about it. I should be able to get them loaded on the website tomorrow.

Steve

 

[yorke-1]

Steve, your Dead Blow Hammers look like a frag grenade!

Here's yesterday's results. The weather was terrible, again, so I got smart and just brought along a pop up cover to stay dry long enough to get something done. The good news is that the snow is slowly melting! Like in previous tests, 6.5mm bullets were tested in a 6.5x47 Lapua and 338s are from the 338-375 Ruger Striker. New additions this week are the 284 Win Striker to test the 7mm bullets and old faithful, the 375 Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan, to test the 375s.



375 Ruger
- 260 Accubond
- Muzzle Velocity 2630fps

Impact velocity is approximately 2460 fps with retained weights of 194.3 and 203.4gr. Performance is typical of what I expect from Accubonds with good, consistent expansion. It's interesting to note that a portion of the plastic tip is still embedded in both bullets. This load was used to take a cow elk back in January at roughly 350 yards with excellent results. That bullet was a pass through double lung and not recovered.


- 270 Hornady Interlock
- Muzzle velocity 2627fps

Impact velocity is approximately 2415 fps with retained weights of 131.5gr and 208.6gr. These performed very similar to other Interlocks that I've recovered in the past with significant weight loss and lots of fragmentation.


284 Win
- 162gr ELD-x
- Muzzle velocity 2298 fps

Impact velocity is approximately 2175 fps with retained weights of 131.2 and 143gr. This impact velocity is similar to a standard 7mm Mag (Rem, WSM, SAUM) at 550-600 yards with a muzzle velocity of around 2900 fps.


- 168gr Matrix VLD
- Muzzle velocity 2186fps

Impact velocity is approximately 2068 fps with retained weights of 142.3 and 147.4gr. This impact velocity is similar to a standard 7mm mag at 650-700 yards with a muzzle velocity of around 2900 fps.


- 168 Berger VLD Hunting
- Muzzle velocity 2210 fps

Impact velocity is approximately 2080 fps with retained weight of 152.1gr. I believe that this bullet hit a jacket fragment that was already in the leather, causing the irregular expansion. Only one of the two bullets fired was recovered but I believe that is also related to one of the bullets completely fragmenting after impact. I'm not certain what caused this but I'll retest in the future to see if the results are similar.



338/375 Ruger
- 300gr Elite
- Muzzle velocity 1924

Impact velocity is approximately 1835 fps with retained weights of 300.0gr and 281.9gr. This is the second time I've tested these bullets with similar results each time. I can see where the nose starts to expand but then the jacket ruptures at the HP. These particular bullets must require a significant hydraulic force (more than the water soaked leather) to reliably expand.


- 300gr OTM
- Muzzle velocity 1989

Impact velocity is approximately 1905 fps with retained weights of 269.5 and 278.0gr. Both of these bullets expanded more reliably than the 300gr Hybrids did.


- 250gr Elite Hybrid
- Muzzle velocity 1814

Impact velocity is approximately 1720 fps with retained weight of 251.1 and 251gr caused by leather packed into the HP. These bullets performed like other Berger Elites that I've tested which show early expansion at the nose but then a jacket failure in the HP cavity. Like other Elite Hybrids I believe these require more fluid and/or higher velocity to perform.


- 250 Elite Hybrid
- Muzzle velocity 2599 fps

Impact velocity is approximately 2480 fps with retained weight of 192.6gr. Two bullets were fired but only one was recovered. I believe that the second bullet impacted another bullet fired into the leather and fragmented. Performance of this bullet with the higher impact velocity is much better than the low velocity impact. This impact velocity is similar to what I would expect at about 450 yards with a muzzle velocity of 3000 fps from something like a 338 Edge of long barreled Lapua.


6.5x47 Lapua
- 143gr ELD-X
- Muzzle velocity 1960 fps

Impact velocity is approximately 1845 fps with retained weights of 135.4gr and 119.0gr. These performed very similar to the other Hornady ELD series of bullets I've tested so far. I will likely test these as a replacement for the 140 Berger VLDs that I've been shooting in the 6.5x47 Lapua.


- 150 Matrix VLD .040" HP
- Muzzle velocity 1854 fps

Impact velocity is approximately 1750 fps with retained weights of 138.4 and 136.7gr. Expansion was decent but the lead core slipped significantly in both bullets with one completely separating from the jacket.


- 150gr Matrix VLD .055" HP
- Muzzle velocity 1847 fps

Impact velocity is approximately 1750 fps with retained weights of 134.5 and 139.0gr. Minimal expansion compared to the same bullet at the same velocity with a smaller HP.


- 140gr Berger VLD Hunting
- Muzzle velocity 1842 fps

Impact velocity is approximately 1725fps with retained weights of 114.5 and 121.5gr. The results this time with the 140gr VLD at a very similar velocity to my initial tests lead me to believe that my initial theory on the poor performance may have been accurate. When I fired the same bullet at nearly identical velocities from a polygonal rifled barrel, it appeared that the bullet was under stabilized and tumbled on impact. The same bullet fired at a very similar velocity from a conventionally cut rifled barrel with the same twist proved to be stabilized much better, causing significantly better expansion. This result coincides with past results comparing the performance of relatively heavy for caliber bullets in both poly rifled and conventionally rifled barrels with the same rate of twist (those were also 6.5mm barrels). It's my belief that the poly rifling just isn't getting a sufficient grip on the bullet, resulting in the bullet "slipping" in the rifling similar to a slipping clutch on a car. What you end up with is an applied riffling twist that doesn't match up with actual twist of the rifling in the barrel.


This project is more work than my actual job! It takes on average 5 hours (including setup and tear down) to get the shooting done, then about 3 hours to collect data, calculate impact velocities, take pictures and get it all written up. I need to make my kids do more of this! It has been a great way to waste time while I'm waiting for the snow to melt so I can get to my better long range spots though. I won't be able to get to my 1500-2600 yard targets for another month at least.

 

[WildRose]

Good work guys.

Yorkie, you're showing the same results I had with the 270gr interlock in my Rifle which is identical to yours except mine is the brushed stainless.

This is why I moved away from the interlock, they just break up too much on big game and I prefer something that will stay together even if it doesn't punch all the way through.

The Big Zebra stud I shot with them was hit perfectly and still ran a total of over 300 yards with a second put right through the triangle and into the same shoulder as the first. It still took him another hundred yards to expire.

Same bullet on my big sable impacting at just around 200yards entered right at the top of his sternum facing me straight on and did the job on his heart and lungs but veered upwards into his spine at about the mid back.

The Zebra mare hit perfectly in the shoulder on the triangle immediately collapsed but tried to get up so I sank another within 2" of the first to finish her.

Of the five shots in total none exited and all broke up pretty bad even at over 300 yards.

I'm waiting on some Peregrine VRG3's in .375 and should have some in with the next shipment. If you want to try a few I'll happily send you some.

CR

 

[yorke-1]

Good work guys.

Yorkie, you're showing the same results I had with the 270gr interlock in my Rifle which is identical to yours except mine is the brushed stainless.

This is why I moved away from the interlock, they just break up too much on big game and I prefer something that will stay together even if it doesn't punch all the way through.

The Big Zebra stud I shot with them was hit perfectly and still ran a total of over 300 yards with a second put right through the triangle and into the same shoulder as the first. It still took him another hundred yards to expire.

Same bullet on my big sable impacting at just around 200yards entered right at the top of his sternum facing me straight on and did the job on his heart and lungs but veered upwards into his spine at about the mid back.

The Zebra mare hit perfectly in the shoulder on the triangle immediately collapsed but tried to get up so I sank another within 2" of the first to finish her.

Of the five shots in total none exited and all broke up pretty bad even at over 300 yards.

I'm waiting on some Peregrine VRG3's in .375 and should have some in with the next shipment. If you want to try a few I'll happily send you some.

CR

I've been using the 270 Interlocks as my plinking bullet in the 375 and the 260 Accubonds for hunting. I was always a little worried about smacking an elk with the Interlocks and now I'm glad never tried. I did hit a porcupine with one a couple years ago and it worked great! Fortunately the interlocks track the trajectory of the Accubonds pretty close out to 300 yards so I can save a couple buck while practicing.

I'd love to try a couple of the Peregrines when you get some in. I haven't had any first hand experience with them so I'm curious to see how they do.