bullet expansion test results

[MudRunner2005]

Awesome! Your tests are excellent! Those Berger 215 Hybrids deformed nearly perfectly! That coincides perfectly with Jeff's (Broz) experiences with the 215 Hybrids and how they function on game in his experiences.

I would love to see the Berger 180 Hybrids from a 7mm STW/.28 Nosler velocity range (3,000-3,100 fps MV), and a Berger 168 VLD at around 3,115 MV from a 7mm RemMag or so.

Not anything pressing, just if you get a wild hair and decide to do something a bit different.

Also, I'd still like to see those Nosler 123 Custom Comps and Berger 130 AR Hybrids from the 6.5 Grendel velocities...If you get a chance. No big rush or anything.

 

[yorke-1]

I realize velocity has some affect on stability, but when I run the numbers at 1000' elev., I still get an SG 0f 1.42 at 1750 mv. PLENTY enough to stabilize in regard to expansion.....Rich

I agree in theory. I'm not entirely convinced that the poly rifling in my 6.5 Grendel was actually spinning the 140gr bullets as fast as the 1:8" twist would suggest. I watched 140 and 160gr 6.5mm bullets tumble at 100 yards from an 8" twist poly barrel at well over 3200 fps. I have lots of the 140 bergers so I'll load some up at a lower velocity and give them another go.

 

[yorke-1]

Awesome! Your tests are excellent! Those Berger 215 Hybrids deformed nearly perfectly! That coincides perfectly with Jeff's (Broz) experiences with the 215 Hybrids and how they function on game in his experiences.

I would love to see the Berger 180 Hybrids from a 7mm STW/.28 Nosler velocity range (3,000-3,100 fps MV), and a Berger 168 VLD at around 3,115 MV from a 7mm RemMag or so.

Not anything pressing, just if you get a wild hair and decide to do something a bit different.

Also, I'd still like to see those Nosler 123 Custom Comps and Berger 130 AR Hybrids from the 6.5 Grendel velocities...If you get a chance. No big rush or anything.

I'll see if I can track down some of the 123 Noslers. I have the 130 AR hybrids loaded up and on the to do list.

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

Awesome job! Glad to see the results on that 147 eld-m. I plan of trying those out the first chance I get.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

Interesting. Being a specialty pistol guy too I'd be curious to see the low end for getting expansion. Testing at warp speed doesn't tell us much for bullets that should expand at those speeds. The 6.5mm 140VLDs that I've seen recovered after being shot from a 6.5x47L XP-100 are very similar to the ones you posted at the lower 1700+fps. A few of them opened, most didn't. Obviously they worked as far as killing the critter, but not exactly what we're looking for.

I tested 7mm VLD's and Hybrids in wet newspaper a few years ago. Used a 14" long 1in8" twist 7mm TCU to see the low end for getting bullets to expand. Based on that limited testing 1800fps isn't enough to get them to expand reliably. If the bullets were annealed they were MUCH more consistent.

Aaron

 

[Greyfox]

The 2nd version of your 140 Berger Hunting VLD expansion test is much more representative of what I would have expected after numerous animsls taken with this bullet. Like Mudrunner, I have also seen stability problems from insuffient launch velocity, and twist rate deficiency. Those bullets in your first test very likely had tumbled.

 

[tbrice23]

The 2nd version of your 140 Berger Hunting VLD expansion test is much more representative of what I would have expected after numerous animsls taken with this bullet. Like Mudrunner, I have also seen stability problems from insuffient launch velocity, and twist rate deficiency. Those bullets in your first test very likely had tumbled.

Yes, yes and yes.

 

[elkaholic]

Yes, yes and yes.

If you test the 140 vld's in the same rifle and with the same velocity as you did the ELD's and Matrix you will likely get a much different result!. In the testing I did over the years with my own bullets, and lots of others, including the VLD's, they more often tumble BECAUSE they didn't expand rather than didn't expand because they tumbled!. This was proven because SMK's did not expand when Bergers did at the same velocity and they would always have bent tips just like you showed in your test. A VLD or spitzer without a lead tip will almost always tumble because there is more or less resistance on one side of the bullet when it contacts media or an animal and this is what causes the bent tip (banana bullets). I also observed clean, round entry holes and then collected bent bullets that were not expanded ....Rich

 

[yorke-1]

If you test the 140 vld's in the same rifle and with the same velocity as you did the ELD's and Matrix you will likely get a much different result!. In the testing I did over the years with my own bullets, and lots of others, including the VLD's, they more often tumble BECAUSE they didn't expand rather than didn't expand because they tumbled!. This was proven because SMK's did not expand when Bergers did at the same velocity and they would always have bent tips just like you showed in your test. A VLD or spitzer without a lead tip will almost always tumble because there is more or less resistance on one side of the bullet when it contacts media or an animal and this is what causes the bent tip (banana bullets). I also observed clean, round entry holes and then collected bent bullets that were not expanded ....Rich

This is the plan for the next trip. I'll load the 140 VLD with the same powder charge that I used for the other 6.5mm bullets and test them again. This trip I just shot what I had loaded to free up some cases for future loads.

 

[MudRunner2005]

The 2nd version of your 140 Berger Hunting VLD expansion test is much more representative of what I would have expected after numerous animsls taken with this bullet. Like Mudrunner, I have also seen stability problems from insuffient launch velocity, and twist rate deficiency. Those bullets in your first test very likely had tumbled.

I don't recall mentioning those issues...Are you sure you're not thinking of someone else?

 

[Greyfox]

I don't recall mentioning those issues...Are you sure you're not thinking of someone else?

My bad....I was referring to the comments made by York-1.
Apologies...

 

[MudRunner2005]

My bad....I was referring to the comments made by York-1.
Apologies...

It's all good man. I just saw it and was like, "What??? I didn't say that...At least I don't think I did?"

 

[AKGuide]

Anymore updates? Loving this thread so far. I also have some cutting edge bullets in 155 grain that don't stabilize in my factory 7 SAUM if you would like to give them a run.

Reuben

 

[Wedgy]

Impressive results !
I think Steve from Hammer is the only manufacturer on this thread so I wonder if he can comment on his bullets' performance as it looks to have done what it is designed to do. It may be proprietary info but how do they pre-stress the nose of a mono to get peel open or break off in even petals ? Is it just assumed that once they break off they radiate outwards ? Hammer & CEB are lathe spun but I don't think Barnes are. Not sure how you would make a longitudinal stress in it. Every one of my recovered Barnes bullets has 4 even petals bent back with a twist in the direction of the rifling, so much that they look like the same bullet.
Pictures is a TSX cutaway, an expanded 150 TTSX, and a 300 Blackout 220 grain subsonic copper, obviously pre-stressed to fragment.