Buddy wants one rifle for everything...?

[Starbuck]

So, you're saying that you'd rather have a scope with a better view than one that makes the bullets land exactly where you're aiming? Lucky for you, there's Swaro Scopes!

Seriously, I get what you're saying as far as being able to see a certain level of detail through a scope at low light in order for it to be usable. In today's day and age, it seems even cheap scopes offer a plenty serviceable view, but I haven't really looked through a ton of lower tier options in awhile. My point was that a lot of lower and mid tier scopes get by on offering a level of color definition or "pop" in store lighting conditions because they know that is as far as the vast majority of scope buyers will go when comparing and selecting a new scope. By contrast, a lot of shooters are turned off by the "glass quality" of NF optics when they do SxS comparison with other optics in the store. After using NF's in a lot of different circumstances and lighting conditions, I can report that they offer a high degree of clarity and definition that really works well on game at low light. Likewise, their reticles always seem to very visible against a lot of different backgrounds. They just optimize their coating package for more real world situations than the color "pop" that wows a lot of people in the store.

I can say that an SWFA 6x for $300 is far and away the best value going in optics and would be the best choice for any build in which cost is a concern and with which you plan to shoot longer ranges with. I read about them before buying one and finally decided I had to see for myself how good they can be for the money. It's not the best option for everything, but they track precisely and are rugged, which is something that not a lot of other scopes that cost many times more can keep pace with. And while the glass isn't as good as some other's, I've found it to be plenty serviceable in low light. I'll go so far as to state that if the OP buys one and feels that view is the factor holding him back from making any shots, I'll gladly give him the $300 he has in it.

 

[WildRose]

So, you're saying that you'd rather have a scope with a better view than one that makes the bullets land exactly where you're aiming? Lucky for you, there's Swaro Scopes!

Seriously, I get what you're saying as far as being able to see a certain level of detail through a scope at low light in order for it to be usable. In today's day and age, it seems even cheap scopes offer a plenty serviceable view, but I haven't really looked through a ton of lower tier options in awhile. My point was that a lot of lower and mid tier scopes get by on offering a level of color definition or "pop" in store lighting conditions because they know that is as far as the vast majority of scope buyers will go when comparing and selecting a new scope. By contrast, a lot of shooters are turned off by the "glass quality" of NF optics when they do SxS comparison with other optics in the store. After using NF's in a lot of different circumstances and lighting conditions, I can report that they offer a high degree of clarity and definition that really works well on game at low light. Likewise, their reticles always seem to very visible against a lot of different backgrounds. They just optimize their coating package for more real world situations than the color "pop" that wows a lot of people in the store.

I can say that an SWFA 6x for $300 is far and away the best value going in optics and would be the best choice for any build in which cost is a concern and with which you plan to shoot longer ranges with. I read about them before buying one and finally decided I had to see for myself how good they can be for the money. It's not the best option for everything, but they track precisely and are rugged, which is something that not a lot of other scopes that cost many times more can keep pace with. And while the glass isn't as good as some other's, I've found it to be plenty serviceable in low light. I'll go so far as to state that if the OP buys one and feels that view is the factor holding him back from making any shots, I'll gladly give him the $300 he has in it.

I'm talking about definition and edge quality. NF is loved by some but they are so bright they hurt my eyes without filters.

I shoot mainly VX3's and VX6's along with some zeiss conquests I've picked up over the years mostly on sales or used.

They main problems with cheap scopes is reliability parallax adjustment and standing up to magnum recoil.

I'm no snob by any means but I have yet to come across anything under 1,000.00 new that met all my criteria.

Without good glass and expensive rifle is just an overpriced club.

 

[Paladin300]

So, you're saying that you'd rather have a scope with a better view than one that makes the bullets land exactly where you're aiming? Lucky for you, there's Swaro Scopes!

Seriously, I get what you're saying as far as being able to see a certain level of detail through a scope at low light in order for it to be usable. In today's day and age, it seems even cheap scopes offer a plenty serviceable view, but I haven't really looked through a ton of lower tier options in awhile. My point was that a lot of lower and mid tier scopes get by on offering a level of color definition or "pop" in store lighting conditions because they know that is as far as the vast majority of scope buyers will go when comparing and selecting a new scope. By contrast, a lot of shooters are turned off by the "glass quality" of NF optics when they do SxS comparison with other optics in the store. After using NF's in a lot of different circumstances and lighting conditions, I can report that they offer a high degree of clarity and definition that really works well on game at low light. Likewise, their reticles always seem to very visible against a lot of different backgrounds. They just optimize their coating package for more real world situations than the color "pop" that wows a lot of people in the store.

I can say that an SWFA 6x for $300 is far and away the best value going in optics and would be the best choice for any build in which cost is a concern and with which you plan to shoot longer ranges with. I read about them before buying one and finally decided I had to see for myself how good they can be for the money. It's not the best option for everything, but they track precisely and are rugged, which is something that not a lot of other scopes that cost many times more can keep pace with. And while the glass isn't as good as some other's, I've found it to be plenty serviceable in low light. I'll go so far as to state that if the OP buys one and feels that view is the factor holding him back from making any shots, I'll gladly give him the $300 he has in it.

I'm talking about definition and edge quality. NF is loved by some but they are so bright they hurt my eyes without filters.

I shoot mainly VX3's and VX6's along with some zeiss conquests I've picked up over the years mostly on sales or used.

They main problems with cheap scopes is reliability parallax adjustment and standing up to magnum recoil.

I'm no snob by any means but I have yet to come across anything under 1,000.00 new that met all my criteria.

Without good glass and expensive rifle is just an overpriced club.

Okay guys I am going to disagree and agree with both of you. First off, I think there are several scopes under a thousand that are great scopes with good glass and that track well. Second, I don't think you have to buy a NF to get a quality scope and just because it has NF, SB, or TT on the side of it doesn't mean it is the best option for a given application. The Busnell XRS ii is a good example. If you catch them on sale they can be had for around $750-1000. Another good example is the Leupold VX-R TMR Firedot line of scopes that run around $600-700. Athlon's Ares and Midas Tac lines of scopes have incredible glass, amazing illumination, a great reticle, FFP, and turrets that have been tried and tested by numerous sources without fail. They run between $700-850. Leupold's Mark 4 is another example and probably the best on this list selling for $699-999. The VX5HD 3-15x44 CDS is also great as a hunting scope especially with the HTMR reticle; $999.99. Any of these will stand up to the recoil of a magnum caliber and are not to far removed from tier 1 scopes like NF. I would say all of them IMO are superior to SWFA. I have owed two SWFA scopes a 6x42 and a 12x. They are rugged and get the job done but the above scopes just do it better and with more features. All have lifetime warranties. Athlon's being the best. You can basically run over the thing box it up and send it back and they will send you a new one, same as Vortex. I presently own 8 Athlons, a half dozen Luepold, a Meopta or two and a S&B pm ii 3-12. I have owned Swarovski and Zeiss scopes as well and I have been behind a ton off Atacrs. The best glass I have ever owned was in a Zeiss Davaria 1.5-6. The next best is in a Luepold Mark 4 3.5-10 followed by the Schmidt. I have an Athlon Cronus that is probably my favorite scope though the Luepold Mk4 gets most the work during hunting season. I have no experience with the Arken scopes but many think highly of them at the $500 mark. Several of the scopes I have mentioned are made in the Low factory in Japan the same place NF is made. A few here in the US and a few from China and the pacific rim. My point is there are quality scopes for under a $1000 from just about any manufacturer or country you can think of! I would put the Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 APRS6 up against any scope out there $1599 average retail new and $1000-1200 used. I would agree that sub $500 scopes are a crap shoot, but above $500 for the beginner shooter there are a lot of quality options. Everyone can't afford a TT, SB, NF or others high end $2500 and up scope and that is really where the men are separated from the boys not because of glass or tracking or even features but simple based on the fact that they have battle proven rugged realiabilty. The Athlon Cronus, Sig Sauer Tango 6, and Leupold Mark 5 3-18 are all being tested and used by SOCOM right now. All three of those lines have options that are in the $1000 range. There are also plenty of used options out there. To say that there are no good options under a $1000 is disingenuous at best. I would suggest the OP determine his specific needs and find several options that would work and watch the classifieds for a good used option or call Athlon or Leupold directly and let them suggest some options or call Cameraland, NY and let them make some suggestions. They are all fantastic companies to work with. Lastly a $1500 budget for a precision hunting rifle is completely doable with a little effort.

 

[GRG]

With what the OP is asking for I don't think is at all out of line for $1500. It's not going to get you a custom rifle and a high dollar scope but can get you a very dependable set up with the ability to accomplish everything he wants. We know that as his friend shoots more he may want to upgrade but he may never shoot more and become very proficient with this one rifle.

For years and years elk and moose were killed with 308 and 30-06;as well as similar calibers. Is it the best for moose, probably not but how many moose and elk are actually killed at 400yds vs 50-150yds? So many get caught up in being able to kill at 800 yet they are being told that half that distance would be the limit and not the norm. I know this is a long range forum. A person that doesn't shoot as much as many on this site should never be pushing the limits in the field anyway.

That leads me to also suggest a Tikka 308 that would meet the practice and hunting criteria as well as meet criteria for reloading and finding factory ammo anywhere in the world. I have several friends that are Snipers and hunters and their favorite caliber is still the 308. Managable recoil without a brake and even better with a brake and a rifle that fits. Tikka makes a very accurate rifle and can be bought new for about $700 on up.

For scopes I like my Leupolds but do not have anything higher end than around $600. I have bought 2 Riton scopes this year and really like them. First bought a lower end 6-24 SFP then bought their top of the line 8-32 ffp and I really like both. I like the turrets, zero stop, side focus glass and construction quality. When I first got my lower end scope my chemo was giving my eyes a lot of trouble and I couldnt tell if the parallax was working right. I talked with them and they said to just send it back. I told them I wasn't sure it was the scope but they said don't worry about it and sent me a return label. I tracked the scope and the date it hit their mail and was signed for a new one went out. That is their warranty, lifetime no questions asked you get a new scope. Can't beat that and had a believer in me.

In all you could put the Tikka, a mid line Riton with rings and base together and be at the $1500 accomplishing everything on the list and have a very accurate setup. I was going to try an Arken scope but what I am seeing even their 4-16× is 36oz or so. That's to much weight in my eyes for an all around hunting rifle so I quit looking at them. I personally have never been around a bad shooting Tikka but have seen and heard of a lot of higher end stuff that goes back to the factory.

I hope we get to hear what the final purchase is, there are a lot of good suggestions on here. It's a lot easier spending someone else's money. Haha

 

[Starbuck]

Okay guys I am going to disagree and agree with both of you. First off, I think there are several scopes under a thousand that are great scopes with good glass and that track well. Second, I don't think you have to buy a NF to get a quality scope and just because it has NF, SB, or TT on the side of it doesn't mean it is the best option for a given application. The Busnell XRS ii is a good example. If you catch them on sale they can be had for around $750-1000. Another good example is the Leupold VX-R TMR Firedot line of scopes that run around $600-700. Athlon's Ares and Midas Tac lines of
scopes have incredible glass, amazing illumination, a great reticle, FFP, and turrets that have been tried and tested by numerous sources without fail. They run between $700-850. Leupold's Mark 4 is another example and probably the best on this list selling for $699-999. The VX5HD 3-15x44 CDS is also great as a hunting scope especially with the HTMR reticle; $999.99. Any of these will stand up to the recoil of a magnum caliber and are not to far removed from tier 1 scopes like NF. I would say all of them IMO are superior to SWFA. I have owed two SWFA scopes a 6x42 and a 12x. They are rugged and get the job done but the above scopes just do it better and with more features. All have lifetime warranties. Athlon's being the best. You can basically run over the thing box it up and send it back and they will send you a new one, same as Vortex. I presently own 8 Athlons, a half dozen Luepold, a Meopta or two and a S&B pm ii 3-12. I have owned Swarovski and Zeiss scopes as well and I have been behind a ton off Atacrs. The best glass I have ever owned was in a Zeiss Davaria 1.5-6. The next best is in a Luepold Mark 4 3.5-10 followed by the Schmidt. I have an Athlon Cronus that is probably my favorite scope though the Luepold Mk4 gets most the work during hunting season. I have no experience with the Arken scopes but many think highly of them at the $500 mark. Several of the scopes I have mentioned are made in the Low factory in Japan the same place NF is made. A few here in the US and a few from China and the pacific rim. My point is there are quality scopes for under a $1000 from just about any manufacturer or country you can think of! I would put the Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 APRS6 up against any scope out there $1599 average retail new and $1000-1200 used. I would agree that sub $500 scopes are a crap shoot, but above $500 for the beginner shooter there are a lot of quality options. Everyone can't afford a TT, SB, NF or others high end $2500 and up scope and that is really where the men are separated from the boys not because of glass or tracking or even features but simple based on the fact that they have battle proven rugged realiabilty. The Athlon Cronus, Sig Sauer Tango 6, and Leupold Mark 5 3-18 are all being tested and used by SOCOM right now. All three of those lines have options that are in the $1000 range. There are also plenty of used options out there. To say that there are no good options under a $1000 is disingenuous at best. I would suggest the OP determine his specific needs and find several options that would work and watch the classifieds for a good used option or call Athlon or Leupold directly and let them suggest some options or call Cameraland, NY and let them make some suggestions. They are all fantastic companies to work with. Lastly a $1500 budget for a precision hunting rifle is completely doable with a little effort.

You listed some great options, but I can pass along first hand that some of them listed might not handle repeated magnum recoil or getting bounced around on back roads or getting accidentally dropped a few times without going wonkey.

I know how the optics threads can go, so I'm hesitant to list names of scopes I've had fail because sometimes people identify way too much with brands they use and, by extension, have trouble accepting that their pet optic didn't prove to be rugged or reliable for someone else. But I will share the scopes I haven't had tracking or reliability issues with: SWFA, NF, Bushnell Elite and Elite tactical, Sightron (All of mine are Japan, so can't speak to the Philipino), USA Built Burris (Haven't tried the Philipino or Chinese offerings), Weaver (Japan offerings) Meopta (including early Ziess conquests and Cabela's Instinct). As I tried and had good luck with certain offerings and companies, I've bought more of them instead of maybe trying something else due to a bad experience, so I haven't been trying some of the newer offerings from some of the newish companies.

As usual, it's one man's experience, YMMV.

 

[WildRose]

This thread reminds me. For the budget conscious guy trying to get into this game with far above average equipment never forget to cruise the LRH classifieds regularly. I've picked up some amazing rigs and great glass from fellow members at a small fraction of their original cost. Some guys get in a bind for money, some just want to upgrade from what they already have and you'll never get screwed doing business with "The regulars" here.

Arguments, warts and all, this is an awfully solid bunch of guys to deal with.

 

[huntinghuasna]

Perhaps…

Rifle: Browning X-Bolt Hell's Canyon Long Range
Scope: Leupold VX-3 HD
Cartridge: 280 AI

 

[Bwana Barry]

Okay guys I am going to disagree and agree with both of you. First off, I think there are several scopes under a thousand that are great scopes with good glass and that track well. Second, I don't think you have to buy a NF to get a quality scope and just because it has NF, SB, or TT on the side of it doesn't mean it is the best option for a given application. The Busnell XRS ii is a good example. If you catch them on sale they can be had for around $750-1000. Another good example is the Leupold VX-R TMR Firedot line of scopes that run around $600-700. Athlon's Ares and Midas Tac lines of scopes have incredible glass, amazing illumination, a great reticle, FFP, and turrets that have been tried and tested by numerous sources without fail. They run between $700-850. Leupold's Mark 4 is another example and probably the best on this list selling for $699-999. The VX5HD 3-15x44 CDS is also great as a hunting scope especially with the HTMR reticle; $999.99. Any of these will stand up to the recoil of a magnum caliber and are not to far removed from tier 1 scopes like NF. I would say all of them IMO are superior to SWFA. I have owed two SWFA scopes a 6x42 and a 12x. They are rugged and get the job done but the above scopes just do it better and with more features. All have lifetime warranties. Athlon's being the best. You can basically run over the thing box it up and send it back and they will send you a new one, same as Vortex. I presently own 8 Athlons, a half dozen Luepold, a Meopta or two and a S&B pm ii 3-12. I have owned Swarovski and Zeiss scopes as well and I have been behind a ton off Atacrs. The best glass I have ever owned was in a Zeiss Davaria 1.5-6. The next best is in a Luepold Mark 4 3.5-10 followed by the Schmidt. I have an Athlon Cronus that is probably my favorite scope though the Luepold Mk4 gets most the work during hunting season. I have no experience with the Arken scopes but many think highly of them at the $500 mark. Several of the scopes I have mentioned are made in the Low factory in Japan the same place NF is made. A few here in the US and a few from China and the pacific rim. My point is there are quality scopes for under a $1000 from just about any manufacturer or country you can think of! I would put the Athlon Cronus BTR Gen 2 APRS6 up against any scope out there $1599 average retail new and $1000-1200 used. I would agree that sub $500 scopes are a crap shoot, but above $500 for the beginner shooter there are a lot of quality options. Everyone can't afford a TT, SB, NF or others high end $2500 and up scope and that is really where the men are separated from the boys not because of glass or tracking or even features but simple based on the fact that they have battle proven rugged realiabilty. The Athlon Cronus, Sig Sauer Tango 6, and Leupold Mark 5 3-18 are all being tested and used by SOCOM right now. All three of those lines have options that are in the $1000 range. There are also plenty of used options out there. To say that there are no good options under a $1000 is disingenuous at best. I would suggest the OP determine his specific needs and find several options that would work and watch the classifieds for a good used option or call Athlon or Leupold directly and let them suggest some options or call Cameraland, NY and let them make some suggestions. They are all fantastic companies to work with. Lastly a $1500 budget for a precision hunting rifle is completely doable with a little effort.

I used Tasco World Class 4 x40 on a 7 x57 in Namibia many years ago and shot dozens and dozens of Oryx, kudu, hartebeest and warthog.
Modern hunters are becoming "too opposite" of simplifying re scopes and ammunition.
On my 1987 30-06 Oberndorf, I use a 6 x 42 Swarofski......
One sees the same buying-what-is new with golfers too....pure marketing effectiveness..
Jut saying...

 

[cabelasken]

Perhaps…

Rifle: Browning X-Bolt Hell's Canyon Long Range
Scope: Leupold VX-3 HD
Cartridge: 280 AI

That's exactly what i have. I used Talley rings for mounting the leupold.

 

[jessej]

I WANT the best glass ever produced,
paired with the most rugged dependable bullet proof tracking known to man.
If I must sacrifice on one of these wants, it will be optical quality.

 

[Starbuck]

I used Tasco World Class 4 x40 on a 7 x57 in Namibia many years ago and shot dozens and dozens of Oryx, kudu, hartebeest and warthog. Modern hunters are becoming "too opposite" of simplifying re scopes and ammunition. On my 1987 30-06 Oberndorf, I use a 6 x 42 Swarofski...... One sees the same buying-what-is new with golfers too....pure marketing effectiveness.. Jut saying...

I know a few guys that got great service with Japan Tasco's.

I agree with you on the virtues of simplicity. I wouldn't feel all that slighted if horrible circumstances constrained me to own and use something like a 280 or '06 with a 6x scope for all of my hunting.

 

[memtb]

Regarding. The. Scope. I. Have. Just. Been. To a. Long. Range. Shooting. School. With. My 270. Weatherby. Mag. ,I. Mounted. My. Leupold. VX3 8.5. To 25X with. 30 mm. Tube ! If the. Elevation. Turre did. Not. Have the. Ability. To. Set a. Zero by. Loosing the. Top of the. Turret And setting the. Calibration sleeve to. Zero,it. Would. Have. Been. Extremely difficult to adjust for. Hitting. Steel targets. From 500. To 1200. Yards ! It. Was necessary to. Adjust the scope in. MO A calibration fir each target! Especially with ranges like 720 yards. And 860 yards. Ect! So if the. Rifle. May sometime. Be used fir. Fun. Shooting out beyond 400. Yards., The Scope you choose neds to. Have the. Ability to be. Easily. Adjusted to those long ranges ,or. Being the. Simple man I. Am , I simply put on a different scope ! One that I think is. Correct for-the task ! Leupold VX3 4.5. XTo 14.X on a. 30 mm tube for Hunting and. 8.5 to 25 X. Windplex also 30 mm. Tube for The. LR shooting school! So. Maybe. Down the. Road. You may. Wish to consider a. Second. Scope for the occasional L R shooting!!??!!

Lenny, I think. that the "period" key. on your keypad. is sticking! memtb

 

[memtb]

Leupolds' have been maligned a lot of recent, maybe justifiable", but one of my old Leupolds' held up quite well ( it's my present back-up scope) through many many shots @ 60 ft/lbs recoil (much more than it would ever see with a brake, which everyone seems to use), and many years of use with no apparent ill. So, at least for the older Leupolds'.....they do OK! memtb

 

[Paladin300]

While I don't have any Leupolds manufactured in say the last 2 or 3 years, I have run Leupolds on all my hunting rigs going back all the way to the mid 80's and (nock on wood)) I have never had one fail to do what I ask it to do. Still running a couple from the late 90s and turn of the century! If memory serves me correctly I bought my first Luepold scope in the late eighties used and never looked back. I would estimate I have probably owned several dozen over the last 35 years, mostly VX3s and several Mark IVs. If I had to own and depend on one scope it would be a Leupold!