Brown bear Rifle

[Pdvdh]

Loss of the animal would count against your bag limit. But that's irrelevant too if a 223 will kill a bear. It does probably more times a year than any other cartridge.

Loss of the animal only counts against a bag limit if you get caught. Which is why nothing happens.

It's totally relevant unless it always kills the bear. Does it always kill them?

One thing to shoot and kill a bear from a safe distance, under safe conditions, with a pea-shooter. Another to stop a charging bear before it mauls or kills the shooter/hunter. Most hunters want a cartridge that will stop them quickly in both scenarios. Don't care how many bear kills you have, how many your friends have, how many the Alaska natives you know claim to have, how many stories you've heard of 223 bear kills, or how many times you repeat yourself. 223s won't stop/disable a bear given the wide variety of shot conditions experienced when hunting wild bears, as quickly as the 30, 338, 375, 416, 458 magnum class of cartridges. Your insistence that 223s can and do kill bears is accepted. Any insistence that 223s will stop a big determined black, grizzly, or brown as quickly and reliably as the larger caliber magnum cartridges in most common use by bear guides, and most bear hunters hunting on foot, is silly nonsense.

Alaska natives do a lot of hunting from snow machines, ATVs, and boats. Caribou, moose, bears, and wolves. Not many roads extend from the remote native villages to their hunting grounds. I'd feel pretty safe bear hunting with a pea shooter too, as long as the engine was running or left idling.

I can say the 223 probably doesn't kill bear more times a year than any other cartridge, and it means as much as your "does probably". Both statements include the word probably, and are equally baseless.

 

[comfisherman]

Loss of the animal only counts against a bag limit if you get caught. Which is why nothing happens.

It's totally relevant unless it always kills the bear. Does it always kill them?

One thing to shoot and kill a bear from a safe distance, under safe conditions, with a pea-shooter. Another to stop a charging bear before it mauls or kills the shooter/hunter. Most hunters want a cartridge that will stop them quickly in both scenarios. Don't care how many bear kills you have, how many your friends have, how many the Alaska natives you know claim to have, how many stories you've heard of 223 bear kills, or how many times you repeat yourself. 223s won't stop/disable a bear given the wide variety of shot conditions experienced when hunting wild bears, as quickly as the 30, 338, 375, 416, 458 magnum class of cartridges. Your insistence that 223s can and do kill bears is accepted. Any insistence that 223s will stop a big determined black, grizzly, or brown as quickly and reliably as the larger caliber magnum cartridges in most common use by bear guides, and most bear hunters hunting on foot, is silly nonsense.

Alaska natives do a lot of hunting from snow machines, ATVs, and boats. Caribou, moose, bears, and wolves. Not many roads extend from the remote native villages to their hunting grounds. I'd feel pretty safe bear hunting with a pea shooter too, as long as the engine was running or left idling.

I can say the 223 probably doesn't kill bear more times a year than any other cartridge, and it means as much as your "does probably". Both statements include the word probably, and are equally baseless.

Can't push the like button more than once, so a quote for folks to re read this will have to do.

 

[akmtnhnt]

Loss of the animal only counts against a bag limit if you get caught. Which is why nothing happens.

It's totally relevant unless it always kills the bear. Does it always kill them?

One thing to shoot and kill a bear from a safe distance, under safe conditions, with a pea-shooter. Another to stop a charging bear before it mauls or kills the shooter/hunter. Most hunters want a cartridge that will stop them quickly in both scenarios. Don't care how many bear kills you have, how many your friends have, how many the Alaska natives you know claim to have, how many stories you've heard of 223 bear kills, or how many times you repeat yourself. 223s won't stop/disable a bear given the wide variety of shot conditions experienced when hunting wild bears, as quickly as the 30, 338, 375, 416, 458 magnum class of cartridges. Your insistence that 223s can and do kill bears is accepted. Any insistence that 223s will stop a big determined black, grizzly, or brown as quickly and reliably as the larger caliber magnum cartridges in most common use by bear guides, and most bear hunters hunting on foot, is silly nonsense.

Alaska natives do a lot of hunting from snow machines, ATVs, and boats. Caribou, moose, bears, and wolves. Not many roads extend from the remote native villages to their hunting grounds. I'd feel pretty safe bear hunting with a pea shooter too, as long as the engine was running or left idling.

I can say the 223 probably doesn't kill bear more times a year than any other cartridge, and it means as much as your "does probably". Both statements include the word probably, and are equally baseless.

If the bullet goes into the right place it always kills them.
If your 375 mega magnum goes in the wrong place it doesn't kill them.
Shot placement, bullet construction and velocity for the bullet to work properly are what kills. Shot placement trumps everything to the extent that almost nothing else matters.

A 50bmg in the *** doesn't give you any insurance against your crap shooting. No matter the headstamp you have to put the bullet where it needs to go.

 

[Marky_mark]

If the bullet goes into the right place it always kills them.
If your 375 mega magnum goes in the wrong place it doesn't kill them.
Shot placement, bullet construction and velocity for the bullet to work properly are what kills. Shot placement trumps everything to the extent that almost nothing else matters.

A 50bmg in the *** doesn't give you any insurance against your crap shooting. No matter the headstamp you have to put the bullet where it needs to go.

I hunt with natives from the arctic circle to the sea of Cortez. Zero, and I mean zero use a 223. Zero recommend one. You should book a stone sheep and take a 223, let me know how that works

 

[akmtnhnt]

I hunt with natives from the arctic circle to the sea of Cortez. Zero, and I mean zero use a 223. Zero recommend one. You should book a stone sheep and take a 223, let me know how that works

Dall sheep die just fine with a 223. I'm not booking any wildly overpriced hunt for sheep when I can OTC hunt sheep here for about $1k in fuel.
My 6cm will be on the next dall hunt because I want more range than the 223 offers not because it's more lethal inside 300y, which is pushing the max range of where my chosen bullet works in a 223 out of a 16in barrel. If 22cm were around lo ger and chambered in a rifle I like I'd take that instead.

 

[Noobie]

Have seen videos of native girls motoring up to caribou in a river and shooting them in the head with a .22 rimfire. Grade skoolers. Trick was to be in the right place at the right time during the migration, and then recovering the animals.

 

[Calvin45]

Don't believe everything your read on the internet

That reminds me of a famous quote by Abe Lincoln!

 

[Marky_mark]

Dall sheep die just fine with a 223. I'm not booking any wildly overpriced hunt for sheep when I can OTC hunt sheep here for about $1k in fuel.
My 6cm will be on the next dall hunt because I want more range than the 223 offers not because it's more lethal inside 300y, which is pushing the max range of where my chosen bullet works in a 223 out of a 16in barrel. If 22cm were around lo ger and chambered in a rifle I like I'd take that instead.

Hahaha
It's easy to talk when you don't invest anything

 

[Marky_mark]

Hahaha
It's easy to talk when you don't invest anything

Dall sheep and barren ground caribou are probably 2 of the softest animals in North America also

 

[bballard]

Many states have legal minimums for caliber for specific animals....there's a reason for that. Also, I would hate to do business with a mad grizz, while sheep hunting with my .222....but. that's just crazy old me......lol

 

[akmtnhnt]

Hahaha
It's easy to talk when you don't invest anything

$1k is a really high dollar hunt actually. I don't spend anything near that hunting moose or goats or deer or elk.
Priority in hunting is #1 food. Size and trophy elements comes a distant 1000th place. I think the only other place in the world I can hunt and bring the most important part back with me is Canada, which has more or less the same animals to hunt I already hunt but at 50x the cost, so there's no reason to go over there.
I hunt Dall sheep because they're so incredibly delicious. Best wild animal I've ever tasted. Not because they have horns. If it cost 50k to hunt one, I'd never do it. I'd go buy a farm's worth of lambs first.

Dall sheep and barren ground caribou are probably 2 of the softest animals in North America also

Agreed. Caribou die if you look at them funny.

 

[Marky_mark]

$1k is a really high dollar hunt actually. I don't spend anything near that hunting moose or goats or deer or elk.
Priority in hunting is #1 food. Size and trophy elements comes a distant 1000th place. I think the only other place in the world I can hunt and bring the most important part back with me is Canada, which has more or less the same animals to hunt I already hunt but at 50x the cost, so there's no reason to go over there.
I hunt Dall sheep because they're so incredibly delicious. Best wild animal I've ever tasted. Not because they have horns. If it cost 50k to hunt one, I'd never do it. I'd go buy a farm's worth of lambs first.


Agreed. Caribou die if you look at them funny.

If you cared about the meat, you wouldn't use a rifle that will more than likely required multiple shots.

$1000 is literally nothing.
People spend far more than that just applying for the opportunity to hunt. Nevermind the price of the tag. Or if they have to go through an outfitter.

 

[akmtnhnt]

If you cared about the meat, you wouldn't use a rifle that will more than likely required multiple shots.

$1000 is literally nothing.
People spend far more than that just applying for the opportunity to hunt. Nevermind the price of the tag. Or if they have to go through an outfitter.

But they don't require multiple shots. I've never had to do a follow up on a moose or a sheep or a bou except with monos. Mono's are slow killers IME. And not 22 mono's. 7s, 30s, 33s. Heavy for caliber lead bullets that are above their minimum velocity upon impact, placed anywhere in the vitals kill no matter the caliber, no matter the animal.
This is because animals don't wear body armor. All north American animals are rather thin skinned. Preditors even more so. Thinner bones to.
If you've looked at moose vs bear bones and hide density and thickness you know the bear has less of both. This is the case for all prey vs predator animals.

The only animals I shoot more than once are bears that need to die where they stand, but that'd be the case for any cartridge.
A 375 ruger into the lungs of a brown bear doesn't kill it any more quickly than a 223 in the same location. Or if if does its irrelevant because in both instances you're tracking that bear. It's not a DRT.
So why not shoot it with the rifle and caliber you can more likely get the cns hit and stay in the scope and on target for the immediate follow ups going for that cns hit?

 

[Bobhunts]

Thanks fellas for the great information. Being a novice headed to Alaska certainly this advice is well taken. I think I'll start looking for 338 WinMag or 338 ultra. I would also welcome more on this thread thank you

If you can find ammo or brass ,I think the .375 Ruger would be a good choice. I had one built for a trip like this but have yet to do it.