Blown Primer when switching to WLR from CCI

[WalksLikeADeer]

I have only used CCI Primers thus far, but loaded up 20 rounds of my usual 30-06 load with WLR primers this time and decided to Crono them to see if it affected my load (58gr IMR 4831 under 168 gr A-Max). This was in some Federal Brass that has been reloaded 5 times.

I noticed that the WLR primers were not seating as tight (hand priming tool) as the CCI primers. They were seated though and didn't back out any when seating the bullet. Yes the difference in force needed to prime was enough to make me check but everything was fine and I chalked it up to the WLR primers being made with a softer material.

Well sure as ----, 12th WLR round decided to blow a pin hole along side the primer. I looked at the brass and got ----ed and threw the casing off a cliff near me and immediately regretted not saving it after I inspected my rifle to find a very deep pit in the bolt face ( I am glad I didn't end up with hot gas in my face, Thanks Tikka ).

What I don't understand is how this can happen. Seems to me the Primer would recoil into the bolt face and seal around the primer hole vs blowing a hole like that. I did a quick google search and others have had WLR primers do the same thing.

So my question is to any experienced reloaders out there: Is this a known issue with WLR primers? Federal Brass? Where might I have gone wrong, perhaps I need to inspect primer pockets better or not use WLR primers if they don't seem to seal as tight as the CCI primers do? All the rounds with CCI primers went in tight as usual, so I figured the brass was fine and the WLR used a softer (brass) cup, was this my mistake?

Yes, that is a known problem, at least to me. That's why I use CCI primers, they just fit tighter. CCI in Remington brass has work the best for me. Winchester, Federal and Norma brass all seem to have looser primer pockets in my sample.

 

[theosmithjr]

theosmithjr: It surely sounds as if you had a malfunction in bullet seating depth. I had the same malfunction as you, but the primer did not fragment, just blew the crap out of the case with case head expansion near 0.006" and a very large primer pocket. Luckily every thing held together and my gun had a gas vent in the correct place.

Wasn't the Seating of the bullet, it was the Federal 205 Gold Metal Match PRIMER. I've worked EVERY SINGLE VARIABLE out of the load for that rifle. The load, my PETLOAD for that rifle is PERFECT! As good as it gets. I've Fired over 330 rounds of it with ZERO PROBLEMS, infact it's one of my MOST ACCURATE Handloads EVER! The load was FINALIZED and mass loaded in 95 degree weather after I completed working it up and to its PEAK PERFORMANCE. Your opinion is VALID, but I went thru every possible TWEAKING TASK before I settled on that as my PETLOAD. It was plain and simply a BAD PRIMER! I still use that EXACT LOAD in every aspect, Exactly the Same as the DAY my accident occurred. Only thing I CHANGED is that I bought a new brick of 1000 FEDERAL GOLD MEDAL MATCH 205 PRIMERS and the rifle and load both work FLAWLESSLY! Simple reason being; **** HAPPENS! Theosmithjr

 

[Bigaldepr]

I finished a brick of CCI LRM primers for my 7mm RM wide range of loads and bullets, snug fit and not a single failure of any type. I liked them so a bought a brick of CCI LR for my 22-250 rem. Same snug fit but experienced a 25% failure rate even though they were well hit. So I bought a brick of WLR but the seating is so soft sometimes it feels like the primer is missing. Strangely though not a single primer failure, they were all still well seated after firing. I figure it was a bad batch, CCI claimed it was me. Anyway going back to CCI, I like the confidence of a snug fit. Bought 3 boxes of WLRM because Cabela's didn't have the CCI LRM in stock, see rant.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Bigaldepr,
You might have a weak firing pin spring. I had that problem with two firearms. Fixed the spring, solved the problem.

 

[Bigaldepr]

Bigaldepr,
You might have a weak firing pin spring. I had that problem with two firearms. Fixed the spring, solved the problem.

Check out the picture I attached. They were solidly hit. After I removed the bullet and powder, dawned my PPE and hit one of them with a punch nothing, tossed it in a fire BANG. I think the problem was the ground glass was not evenly mixed in the primer compound leaving some primers without the initiator.

 

[MajorSpittle]

Just measured one of the bad primers and it was .209" wide. Measured the primer pocket width at .21". The primer wouldn't fall out from tapping the case on the counter, but I could pop it out by putting just a slight amount of air pressure in the case.

Sending off some loaded rounds, primed brass, fired brass that has carbon ring around primers, and unused primers to Winchester.

 

[wonderman4]

Firstly, I admit to not reading all the posts in this thread, so if I am being redundant, please forgive.

The old wives tale: when changing any component, reduce powder charge and work back up. Well it ain't an old wives tail. It is the truth. Don't do it and.....well, the evidence is recorded in several posts here.

I have been using CCI primers since 1963. Never had a failure that was the primer.

In 1989, CCI reformulated their primers. They did so for using ball powders and optimized the mix for spherical propellants that produced a 24-percent increase in flame temperature and a 16-percent boost in gas volume.

If y'all remember Winchester primers back in the old days, they were plated much like CCI has always been. Well, they cheaped out to save some bucks $ and stopped plating them. They did not increase the difference in diameter to make up for the missing plating, which in my experience has made them seat soft. I have only used maybe a box of 100 Winchester rifle primers, so my observation was based on that.

This is my 2 cents.

Here is a decent read on primers:

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

 

[manitou]

Man, this has me worried. WLR are my go to primers in my .280 and 7mm08 loads... and have been for years. Never had a problem. I have a LOT of ammo loaded up with the WLR primers. Gawd, I would hate to disassemble all of it and start from scratch, especially since they shoot sub 1/2" groups.

 

[Rich Coyle]

The old wives tale: when changing any component, reduce powder charge and work back up. Well it ain't an old wives tail. It is the truth. Don't do it and.....well, the evidence is recorded in several posts here.

If one starts with the hottest primer available to work up the load then switching to a different primer is no big deal.

 

[theosmithjr]

I finished a brick of CCI LRM primers for my 7mm RM wide range of loads and bullets, snug fit and not a single failure of any type. I liked them so a bought a brick of CCI LR for my 22-250 rem. Same snug fit but experienced a 25% failure rate even though they were well hit. So I bought a brick of WLR but the seating is so soft sometimes it feels like the primer is missing. Strangely though not a single primer failure, they were all still well seated after firing. I figure it was a bad batch, CCI claimed it was me. Anyway going back to CCI, I like the confidence of a snug fit. Bought 3 boxes of WLRM because Cabela's didn't have the CCI LRM in stock, see rant.

I posted to this thread when it began. Since then I've been to Anoka, MN. Vista Outdoors is located there. They're Federal, and also they're CCI. I had a CATASTROPHIC PRIMER FAILURE 2 1/2 years ago! Which left my Right eye severely damaged. I've endured 3 Surguries to have metal removed from .y eye. Peices embedded into the 3rd layed of my cornea. FEDERAL WOULD NOT TALK to me! NOT A SINGLE WORD once they knew I loaded the ammo. Its POLICY to ASSUME that HANDLOADER are at fault. I assured them I had NO I TENTION of filing a lawsuit. Many phone calls, 3 trips to FEDERAL, ringing loaded ammo, unused primers in the box I purchased, all load data, the firearm a cident occurred with, and the fired cases that worked perfect! The result was this, Their FEDERAL GOLD METALMATCH 205 BLEW UP! 373 Primers outta the brick of 1000 worked perfect. 1 BLEW! 626 GOING INTO THE TRASH! WILDCATTERS & HANDLOADERS made this industry. In the beginning, it was US that DEVELOPED EVERYTHING THATS USED TODAY! Like everything else, NO ONE LIKES TO ADMIT FAILURE! BE SAFE, TAKE CARE, KEEP LOADING, and KEEP SEEKING PERFECTION FELLAS! BUT KNOW THIS, NOTHING is GUARANTEED!
Theosmithjr

 

[manitou]

Man, I am sorry to hear you had(have) gone through that. Scary. I wear safety glasses at my range... makes me think about wearing them while hunting.

 

[DJ Fergus]

If one starts with the hottest primer available to work up the load then switching to a different primer is no big deal.

I've tried alot of primers & the WLRM primer is by far the hottest I have tried. Some folks swear by them.

 

[Dean2]

I've tried alot of primers & the WLRM primer is by far the hottest I have tried. Some folks swear by them.

Agree completely. I find the WLRM and Fed 215 to both be much hotter than CCI LRMAG primers. If the OPS load was hot already, not hard to believe the primer switch put it over.

That all said, I use Fed 215 or Win Mag primers in all my loads that use over 80 grains of powder. Never get a click boom in cold weather and I have had quite a few using CCI mag (tried different batches and different cartridges, same result) in the same conditions.

 

[wonderman4]

Rich Coyle you can do what ever the hell you want; I don't care.

It is your rifle, your eyes and your face.

I have witnessed two blowups. Neither were very nice to look at.

Both times the "victims" were carted off in an EMS to the emergency room.

I don't tell anyone how to go about their practices in this hobby of reloading....all I do is witness to my experiences. Anyone can take it or leave it.