Blown Primer when switching to WLR from CCI

[MajorSpittle]

What size firing pin are you using and is the bolt bushed on the firing pin? Oh is it a stock spring or heavier?

It is all stock, I bought the rifle new and never had anything done. I will probably be taking the bolt apart and give it a good inspection and cleaning. That picture really turned out good and you can see a lot of detail. I did clean the bolt face with IPA and a q-tip before taking the picture, but it still looks horrible close up like that.

 

[wonderman4]

The combination of Federal brass and Winchester primers has had bad effects for a few years. Many, many stories with the same script.

 

[wonderman4]

theosmithjr: It surely sounds as if you had a malfunction in bullet seating depth. I had the same malfunction as you, but the primer did not fragment, just blew the crap out of the case with case head expansion near 0.006" and a very large primer pocket. Luckily every thing held together and my gun had a gas vent in the correct place.

 

[theosmithjr]

It is all stock, I bought the rifle new and never had anything done. I will probably be taking the bolt apart and give it a good inspection and cleaning. That picture really turned out good and you can see a lot of detail. I did clean the bolt face with IPA and a q-tip before taking the picture, but it still looks horrible close up like that.

 

[theosmithjr]

As with your Bolt Face mine too had tons of brass on it. It even had LAPUA 223 IMPRINTED on it! I've scrubbed and scrubbed using every solvent on the market to NO AVAIL trying to remove it. I SHUTTER thinking of what the PRESSURE in my chamber in bolt face was that evening when the accident happened! It had to of been OFF THE CHART! It LQQKS as if LAPUA 223 was STAMPED into the bolt face when it was made. My Gunsmith told me that the Integrity of the Bolt is fine. So I'm stuck with a brass embedded bolt face on one of my FAVORITE Varmint and target files. Thank GOD it's only cosmetic damage to it, but it still bothers me as I take Great Pride in all my weapons and I maintain them to keep them in BRAND NEW condition! I used a REMINGTON 700 Stainless short action for the build a d had my Smith true it up for ultimate accuracy being the Perfectionist I am. Thank GOD Remington builds a STRONG HIGH QUALITY affordable action, otherwise I might NOT be here to comment and enjoy the LRH Fourm! ALL you fellas are a BUNCH of GOOD OLE BOYS, and it's a JOY to be able to share our experience of success and failures of hunting, shooting, loading, building and everything WE LEARNED and LOVE involved with this Sport! I pray all of US ALWAYS PUT SAFETY FIRST, and that while accidents are RARE when the PROTOCOLS of OUR Sport are followed, they DO HAPPEN! Stay SAFE and SHOOT STRAIGHT! Theosmithjr

 

[Mickey D]

I have only used CCI Primers thus far, but loaded up 20 rounds of my usual 30-06 load with WLR primers this time and decided to Crono them to see if it affected my load (58gr IMR 4831 under 168 gr A-Max). This was in some Federal Brass that has been reloaded 5 times.

I noticed that the WLR primers were not seating as tight (hand priming tool) as the CCI primers. They were seated though and didn't back out any when seating the bullet. Yes the difference in force needed to prime was enough to make me check but everything was fine and I chalked it up to the WLR primers being made with a softer material.

Well sure as ----, 12th WLR round decided to blow a pin hole along side the primer. I looked at the brass and got ----ed and threw the casing off a cliff near me and immediately regretted not saving it after I inspected my rifle to find a very deep pit in the bolt face ( I am glad I didn't end up with hot gas in my face, Thanks Tikka ).

What I don't understand is how this can happen. Seems to me the Primer would recoil into the bolt face and seal around the primer hole vs blowing a hole like that. I did a quick google search and others have had WLR primers do the same thing.

So my question is to any experienced reloaders out there: Is this a known issue with WLR primers? Federal Brass? Where might I have gone wrong, perhaps I need to inspect primer pockets better or not use WLR primers if they don't seem to seal as tight as the CCI primers do? All the rounds with CCI primers went in tight as usual, so I figured the brass was fine and the WLR used a softer (brass) cup, was this my mistake?

Chinaman say
"If you change one thing you change every thing".
Proceed with caution. #1 rule to reloading.

 

[243winxb]

I have had defective Rem 9 1/2 primers years ago. Seen Federal online that were defective.

Note: Loose pockets will vent gas up the side of the primer.
The damage will appear the same as a defective primer.

High pressure may cause the leak. Reduce the powder charge . If primers still vent, they are defective.

 

[243winxb]

Brass Life - Running at 65,000 PSI in some factory loadings will stress brass. The factory gets away with it because its only 1 firing.

When we reload, trying to match factory velocities over a chronograph, the pressure may be the same or higher.

At these pressures, brass life may be limited to 2 or 3 reloadings. Primer pockets may loosen, enlarge a small amount each firing. If pockets become loose sooner then 5 firings, the powder charge needs to be reduced.

Accuracy should be found below the maximum loading data for longer case life. If you really need more or maximum velocity, trade up to a larger cartridge. There are many in the same bullet type diameter available today.

This is general information, not directed at anyone.

 

[g0rd0]

I have only used CCI Primers thus far, but loaded up 20 rounds of my usual 30-06 load with WLR primers this time and decided to Crono them to see if it affected my load (58gr IMR 4831 under 168 gr A-Max). This was in some Federal Brass that has been reloaded 5 times.

I noticed that the WLR primers were not seating as tight (hand priming tool) as the CCI primers. They were seated though and didn't back out any when seating the bullet. Yes the difference in force needed to prime was enough to make me check but everything was fine and I chalked it up to the WLR primers being made with a softer material.

Well sure as ----, 12th WLR round decided to blow a pin hole along side the primer. I looked at the brass and got ----ed and threw the casing off a cliff near me and immediately regretted not saving it after I inspected my rifle to find a very deep pit in the bolt face ( I am glad I didn't end up with hot gas in my face, Thanks Tikka ).

What I don't understand is how this can happen. Seems to me the Primer would recoil into the bolt face and seal around the primer hole vs blowing a hole like that. I did a quick google search and others have had WLR primers do the same thing.

So my question is to any experienced reloaders out there: Is this a known issue with WLR primers? Federal Brass? Where might I have gone wrong, perhaps I need to inspect primer pockets better or not use WLR primers if they don't seem to seal as tight as the CCI primers do? All the rounds with CCI primers went in tight as usual, so I figured the brass was fine and the WLR used a softer (brass) cup, was this my mistake?

this has happened to me with a 7rm, CCI250's my usual then tried WLRM and pin holes blown out. I just gave the WLRM's to a friend and he had the same thing happen. We tossed the rest of them and went back to CCI

 

[Rich Coyle]

If pockets become loose sooner then 5 firings, the powder charge needs to be reduced.

Why?

 

[MajorSpittle]

I have had defective Rem 9 1/2 primers years ago. Seen Federal online that were defective.

Note: Loose pockets will vent gas up the side of the primer.
The damage will appear the same as a defective primer.

High pressure may cause the leak. Reduce the powder charge . If primers still vent, they are defective.

It does make sense that if the Primer is smaller then the pocket that the primer cup would be stretched at the base to fill the primer pocket and this could cause the primer to rupture there like what happened to me.

But the question is:

Was the Primer manufactured too small?
Was the Primer manufactured with too thin of material?
Was the Primer manufactured with too soft of material?
Was the Primer Pocket on the Brass too large?

This is my take away from this experience:

I would urge people to pay close attention to primers going in too loosely. All my CCI200 primers went into the brass with a normal amount of pressure. The WLR was a much lighter pressure then normal. I did verify they were not moving after I seated the primer and then made the poor decision that the difference in seating tension was "normal" for WLR primers.

I will be measuring the primers and the primer pockets on my brass now and try to figure out what the issue was.

I have seen no indication of excess pressure in the other rounds fired and I am under book max by 1.5 grains and significantly under book max velocity and lower than book velocity for my load (I have a larger COAL than book on my rounds but am still well short of touching the lands).

 

[Deleted member 107796]

I don't like Winchester reloading components at all due to the poor quality control.
After seeing an average of about 4-5 of 50 cases with very serious defects, I stopped using anything Winchester. They seem to produce fine OTS ammo, though.

 

[243winxb]

Why pockets get loose- pressure to high or loaded many times.

There is a tool made to gauge pockets. Or pin gauges might be used?

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I never have had a failure with win. components. Sounds like the rather loose pockets started the ball rolling, combined with unknown pressures from an un reworked load.

I have had a couple of failures with fed 215 primers; pinhole edge venting. These were on brass I bought from a now defunct lgs as used. I suspect they were run hot and damaged, though the primers seated fine; possibly the pockets were re-tightened?
Any component can fail if enough care is not taken to use properly. I suspect the primer failures I had with my 7stw would have been win. if that is what my load called for. Like the others, I still use the component in question, I do watch my brass condition better now. … Reminds me to cull some remmy 300rum brass that the pockets aren't great on anymore...