No I don't think so if they want to shoot more it's their choice. I shoot 130gr by volume and weigh it with a 290-300gr in my knight mountaineer and my BigHorn. If someone else is using my bighorn I'll drop it to 120 because 130 will have more blow back into the action area. 120 and 130 also stretches the 209 plastic cups.
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Blackhorn 209 question
- Thread starter cornchuck
- Start date
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ENCORE
Well-Known Member
The only production muzzleloader manufacturer that allows charges of BH209 to exceed 120grs VOLUME or 84grs WEIGHT is CVA and the Paramount rifles.
I can assure you this, Knight recommends a maximum charge of 120grs VOLUME or 84grs WEIGHT.
So, what you're doing is exceeding the maximum charge for your rifle by both Knight and Western, now Hodgdon. That's your choice.
Some guys made the choice of burning smokeless in a non-smokeless rifle. Yup, their choice and they paid dearly.
Ok I read what you posted.
Would you if you could find and post from any manufacturer of anything for muzzle loader that shows how they determined what pressure they used to determine their claimed max load of black powder or black powder substitute? I would even like to see an official email with the data.
The smokeless powder companies and firearms companies have that information readily available.
I wonder why the black powder companies don't have access to the pressure testing equipment the other companies do.
Asking to try reduce my ignorance.
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
Actually, Western did pressure testing prior to releasing it using their test barrel. Did they error on a conservative side? Maybe, maybe not.
When the Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader (RUM) was released, of course guys wanted to shoot BH in them, even though the ignition system was never designed for it. There is now an aftermarket ignition system that is flawless from Arrowheadrifles.com
Western was provided a RUM for actual pressure testing. Western pressure tested the rifle and gave it a 160gr VOLUME charge or 112grs by WEIGHT. Here's the kicker........... they stopped at that charge because charges beyond that showed the starting of the lack of burn. I actually have an email/s that may help.
Concerning the following snip, either rifle is meant of the RUM and also the original Ultimate Firearms Inc. rifles.
Thanks it helps and similar to what info I obtained when I called and emailed all of them a few years ago. Helpful just generalized and nothing like I was expecting.
I'm still just missing the info. I can load the "MAX" load of 150 or equal with a 400gr jacketed full bore or a 150gr sabot. No one can explain this with actual pressure numbers and published data.
I'm probably being stubborn and won't take up anymore of this thread. Stopping pressure testing because not getting full burn for me is not comprehensible as I give a flip if it's not burning all the powder. I only care about accuracy velocity and actual published pressure levels.
Thanks for sharing and helping reduce my ignorance.
I'm still just missing the info. I can load the "MAX" load of 150 or equal with a 400gr jacketed full bore or a 150gr sabot. No one can explain this with actual pressure numbers and published data.
I'm probably being stubborn and won't take up anymore of this thread. Stopping pressure testing because not getting full burn for me is not comprehensible as I give a flip if it's not burning all the powder. I only care about accuracy velocity and actual published pressure levels.
Thanks for sharing and helping reduce my ignorance.
Varmint Hunter
Well-Known Member
I'm not a supporter of anyone in particular but when it comes to muzzleloading I'd take ENCORE"s advice to heart. I've read many of his posts on several forums and would consider him an expert on both production and custom muzzleloaders.
Just sayin'
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
GREAT CONVERSATIONS.............
We can all learn new things. I learned a few things doing that force testing of bullet to bore at 300yds. As the force to load increased, the velocity increased. However, the tightest group had was from the bullet with the least amount of force. Also, the ES was the largest too!
BH is not totally understood yet. By that I mean right down to the DNA of it and why it does certain things. There's a number of high round count shooters that are still trying to figure some things out.
We can all learn new things. I learned a few things doing that force testing of bullet to bore at 300yds. As the force to load increased, the velocity increased. However, the tightest group had was from the bullet with the least amount of force. Also, the ES was the largest too!
BH is not totally understood yet. By that I mean right down to the DNA of it and why it does certain things. There's a number of high round count shooters that are still trying to figure some things out.
PopPop
Member
What kind / make scale do you guys use for weighing out your 209 powder ?
ENCORE
Well-Known Member
RCBS beam scale
vvhoisjohngalt
Active Member
FX-120i
It's overkill but already need it for center fire stuff
Beam scale would be fine for most
It's overkill but already need it for center fire stuff
Beam scale would be fine for most
