Best Cartridge for out to 500 yds???

[squirrelduster]

I have been doing some development with a new 7 WSM. I know there will be people that say the 7 Rem mag will duplicate the ballistics.
I purchased a 6mm BR a couple of years ago and was amazed at how accurate it was and the method of finding an accurate load was easy - load it hot and play with seating depth. I looked at the 7 WSM as a larger version that should be as easy to load for.
I loaded up a 8 shot ladder test and took it to the range. It shot a 1.12" group at 200 yards with 2.25 grains of powder variation. A tad over the mysterious .5 MOA. With the same powder charge it shoots less than 1/2" at 200 yards.
This is a factory Savage model 16.
The powder configuration must make a difference.
If you want and awesome medium range cartridge that really performs and has some serious performance at 500 yards look at the 7 WSM or the 7 SAUM. Great selection of bullets with very good BC's and incredible accuracy.

 

[Chopaka81]

IMHO - 7mm Rem Mag is the best of the 3 original cal's in question. I have found the 7mm RM to be very easy to load for. It is just as inheritently accurate as the 308. The only reason that the 7mm does not do as well in competition is the recoil in my opinion.
Just my personal experience.
My LR kill was a Mulie at about 550 yds in 1984. I did not have a cronograph or a laser range finder in those days. I used a 160gr Sierra SBT pushed by a big pile of H4831.
The second LR kill was in 1992 at about 500 ys. Same deal no crono - no laser. I used a 145gr Speer SBT.
Both shots left a hole thru the heart about the size of a silver dollar.
I would aggree that the 7mm WSM is an outstanding choice.
I have to honest, I have never gone over 162gr in any 7mm, none of which are considered VLD's.
For Deer and antelope it is completely adequate in every way out to 500 yds. I would not hessitate to use mine out to 650 yds. that is only because it is limited by the optics I have on it. An old Leupold VariX-II 3-9x40 that I purchased in 1970 for $69 from a hardware store. The rifle is a Mauser Model 3000 Left Hand, bought it as a barreled action (26" bbl). I earned the money mowing lawns. The rifle has extreme sentimental value to me and I could never alter it. Cold barrel that rifle shoots 1/2 moa 5 shots everytime. I have complete trust in my 7mm and that is what one needs when going LR.
My son shoots a Rem 600 Carbine in 308 and it is a fine shooting rifle in it's own right, but he has set it aside in favor of a 257 WBY, 110 AB @ 3374 fps. I have suggested he get the 308 rebarreled to 24" in the same caliber.
Good Luck,

 

[Topshot]

The .308 is a relic of the cold war.

7mm Rem Mag, things are warming up.

7mm RUM, man now you are on fire!!!!!!

Seriously, If you are thinking of going the way of the .308 then you should consider the 7-08, it shoots flatter out to 500 yards, less wind drift, less recoil, more energy. Thats a win win win.

 

[kiwi3006]

7mm mag of course, hey I shoot one so I can't be biased!

7mm has great BC bullets to choose from 162 a-max and 168 berger are both 0.6 G1, 160 accubond 0.531 G1. All these can easily be pushed over 3000 fps. There will be minimal windage correction out to 500 yds. The only way to get 308 bullets with these BC's is to get into the 200 gr + range, and there is no way you could push these over 3000 fps in a 308!

Yes it has a belt, but that doesn't affect it's accuracy. Any good smith can build you a 7mm mag that will achieve 0.5 MOA or better.

Shooting my 7mm mag, with a hand around the bipod I can spot my shots from 100 yds out. It weighs 9-10 lb and has a 26" No 5 barrel. Recoil is very mild, a 12 year old boy had no problems shooting my rifle!

The only advantage of 308 over the 7mm mag is barrel life.

Stu.

 

[FEENIX]

Get the .308 now ... so you have the excuse to get either the 7MM or 7RUM later ... or both.

Good luck and happy safe hunting/shooting!

 

[Bravo 4]

You said you wanted "fast and flat"...the .308 is neither. It doesn't compair to the other two mentioned. The .308 is fun to shoot...at paper, but the only reason I shoot one is because that's what is issued to me. If you do a lot of volume shooting it will definately be cheaper if you reload.
If you are going for game, then why not go with something that gives you a higher probability of a first round hit. I would take my 7mm mag over a .308 any day when shooting at something past a few hundred yards. The ballistics speak for themselves.

 

[tackb]

IMHO the two 7mm's arn't like for like against a .308 , it's not fair to compare magnums against a .308.

for a 500 yd rifle either a 7mm 08 or a .260 remington would serve you very well indeed but don't discount the 308 it's a great round and acheived many things in it's rather illustrious career?

no matter what calibre you get you will have to correct elevation and windage to some degree as range and wind increases , so if i was you i'd get one of the above and learn the round so you can reliable hit what your aiming at thats the real trick?

for the record i use a .260 a .308 and a 300 rum (as well as a few others ) and as a game round the 260 takes a lot of beating but having said that i've killed a lot of stuff with my 308......

 

[rdsii64]

Any answer I give you would be just an opinion. My opinion is no better or worse than any other poster. So I will say it this way, a hunting caliber needs to put the animal down hard with one well aimed shot. A bench caliber has to be one hole accurate and have reasonable recoil because you are going to shoot it all day. so just pick one that is accurate, hard hitting and won't beat you up on the bench. all of the calibers you mentioned hit hard enough at 500 yards. all of them can be one hole accurate with hand loads. so which one won't beat you to death from the bench??

 

[liltank]

Any answer I give you would be just an opinion. My opinion is no better or worse than any other poster. So I will say it this way, a hunting caliber needs to put the animal down hard with one well aimed shot. A bench caliber has to be one hole accurate and have reasonable recoil because you are going to shoot it all day. so just pick one that is accurate, hard hitting and won't beat you up on the bench. all of the calibers you mentioned hit hard enough at 500 yards. all of them can be one hole accurate with hand loads. so which one won't beat you to death from the bench??

+1 I like your thought!!!

 

[Chopaka81]

For me, I do not care to crawl on my hands and knees thru the sage brush and prickly pears following a drop of blood here and another there do to a exit hole only being 3/8ths of an inch or less.

IMHO this occurs because the impact velocity was to low.

One "route" requires knee pads the other does not.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

You need two rifles because bench rest and hunting require two completely different rifles. Benchrest is a heavy rifle with long barrel life for repeated shots. Hunting is a light rifle with best big game performance. Of the ones you mentioned I like the 308 because of repeated shooting at the bench but it would be a poor choice for long range big game hunting because of the very low velocity with quality big game bullets. The 7mm rem mag is a good choice but then it would not be the best at either the bench or LR hunting. In a light hunting rifle it kicks to hard for repeated bench work and barrel life suffers with repeated shots at the bench. Good accurate LR hunter for up to caribou size critters though. 7mm ultramag is not a consideration at all. Good long range hunter though but horrific barrel life.

I would get a 308 for the bench and a 257 weatherby for big game out to 500 yards.

My MK 5 257 wby with a 26" barrel groups a 100 grain barnes TSX at 3765 fps into 1" groups at 400 yards. Shots out to 500 yards are basically point blank shooting and trivial. Last week my son shot a nice pronghorn at 512 yards through both front shoulders and I don't think the bullet slowed down that much. I shot a cow elk through both shoulders with it at a 1/4 mile and the bullet kept going somewhere leaving a devastated front of an elk.

This rifle has a 430 yard zero and is 7 inches low at 500. I think it peaks out at around 6" high around 300 yards. This rifle has very little recoil, will destroy game out to 500 yards, and shoot incredibly flat to make 500 yard shots trivial.

You can shoot a 300 ultramag with a 130 barnes tsx at 3900 fps and even get better at 500 yards but all that powder, noise and recoil are not needed in a short range 500 yard rifle.

 

[joseph]

Don't forget the 6mm Norma BR and its improved versions for pure benchrest accuracy.

Here is an example:

2 New IBS 1000 Yard Records Set
We have 2 new IBS 1000 Yard Agg records going right now - one in Light Gun and one in Heavy Gun. Both these were set at the Iowa 1000 Yard Club. We'll see if they are still standing at the end of the IBS season - if so, they will become official records then!

Al Forbes set a new Iowa club record and an IBS 6-match Light Gun Group agg record of 4.281" (with a related score agg of 47.167). Al did this with his 6 Dasher, and it included 3 screamer groups. The past Iowa club record was 5.299" and the IBS record until now was 4.6832".

Way to go, Al and Lee!!

You big BOOMERS take note: I can't find it right now, but the 600 yard record 5 shot group is about 3/8" which was a 6mm Norma BR.

joseph

 

[Chopaka81]

In all fairness, the outfitter I used this past summer for a PD shoot in Wyoming shoots a 6mm BR.

Last year he filled his antelope doe tag using his 6mm BR and a single shot to the head at 500 yds. gun)

He used an 85gr Berger (or something like that) if memory serves me.