Bergers ????

[turkeyfever]

I quit shooting Bergers at short range period. I had one blow up on the shoulder of a whitetail doe a couple of years ago. Knock her off her feet at fifty yards and got up and started walking. I have killed around 10 to 15 animal with 168 gr bergers in 7mm rem mag. From my experience shoulder shots leave a tiny hole in and don't exit going out.
That means no blood trail. The shots that I took behind shoulders taking heart and lungs you get a pass thru. Two holes drain better than one. This is my experience only.

 

[Lrt307]

You guys that are having problems with the berger bullets should watch the beyond belief training videos. I watched them 12 years back and have never looked back. John Burns was one of the original advocates for using the berger bullets for hunting. Between my buddies and myself we have over 60 kills with bergers. Most were one shot drops using the high shoulder shot. All recovered but 1 cow that I lost because I didn't do my part. No fault of the bullet. Look up Broz for how much success he's been having. It comes down to shot placement with the right amount of velocity and energy. I wholeheartedly believe that you guys that are having "problems" with berger bullets is no fault of the bullet but the one pulling the trigger!!! If you all practiced shooting as much as John Burns you wouldn't have any issues. Please practice as much as you can.


Corey

I appreciate the info. I have probably killed as many or more elk than most of the guys on this site including John Burns. I probably shoot long range just as much. I shoot in the wind all of the time to verify the effects. Maybe I need to listen to Phil and go print out some of their targets to make me a better shooter so their bullets work lol! I am searching for something better.gun)

 

[bigngreen]

I am searching for something better.gun)

Good luck with that, I've been testing everything from custom bonded tipped bullets to several kinds of all copper bullets and everything in between, keep coming back to several Bergers that prove themselves every time I use them. Broz is pushing 60 elk this year alone I think and the Bergers are hammering, his patience for poor performance is very low, if he'd had issues they'd be gone!

 

[barefooter56]

I appreciate the info. I have probably killed as many or more elk than most of the guys on this site including John Burns. I probably shoot long range just as much. I shoot in the wind all of the time to verify the effects. Maybe I need to listen to Phil and go print out some of their targets to make me a better shooter so their bullets work lol! I am searching for something better.gun)

LrT307,
Great! And we will keep working on our bullets to make them even better also! That is something we never will stop doing , ever.

 

[Lrt307]

LrT307,
Great! And we will keep working on our bullets to make them even better also! That is something we never will stop doing , ever.

Phil I don't mean anything bad about bergers in this discussion. Mainly just frustrated with my experiences. Whether it be my shot placement the unknown without recovery of the animal. I love berger bullets and they shoot awesome out of all of my guns. I just need to get some better results to keep my confidence up while using them hunting. I am gonna try your 195 in my 7rum and see how they work. I will also try them hunting. I would like to thank everyone for their input on this subject matter. At the end of the day I would just like to have a humane or ethical kill no matter what bullet is used.gun)

 

[barefooter56]

Phil I don't mean anything bad about bergers in this discussion. Mainly just frustrated with my experiences. Whether it be my shot placement the unknown without recovery of the animal. I love berger bullets and they shoot awesome out of all of my guns. I just need to get some better results to keep my confidence up while using them hunting. I am gonna try your 195 in my 7rum and see how they work. I will also try them hunting. I would like to thank everyone for their input on this subject matter. At the end of the day I would just like to have a humane or ethical kill no matter what bullet is used.gun)

LrT307,
No offense was taken sir! I just meant to say that we are ALL working tword the same goals. Accuracy and humane first shot kills. Nothing in this world is 100%. But if you use that as your goal you can get awful close IMHO. Please let us know if we can be of any help any time. And when you are ready for the 7 RUM load data for our 195 EOL bullet contact us at [email protected]

 

[Lrt307]

LrT307,
No offense was taken sir! I just meant to say that we are ALL working tword the same goals. Accuracy and humane first shot kills. Nothing in this world is 100%. But if you use that as your goal you can get awful close IMHO. Please let us know if we can be of any help any time. And when you are ready for the 7 RUM load data for our 195 EOL bullet contact us at [email protected]

Thanks Phil. I just sent an email in.

 

[bigngreen]

At the end of the day I would just like to have a humane or ethical kill no matter what bullet is used.gun)

That right there is what makes this so frustraring, both for the guys who have had issues and guys who haven't!! I've seen better than a couple hundred elk killed with Bergers during damage hunts and personal use and I've just seen the one pencil, but that was a hit that anything harder than a varmint bullet would not have opened.
We've pushed them by loading the varmint bullets in 22-250's and then shoot deer and antelope at close range on the point of the shoulder, everything has resulted in utter destruction in the chest cavity.
I have seen a guy have issues in a 6.5, legit blow ups on the surface but it ended up being the throat in the rifle was stressing the jackets so bad they were barely holding together, loading the thicker target bullet instantly cured it and his wound channel resembled the exact same results we were seeing.

If they don't work a guy has to change, period but is the change necessary because of the bullet or is there a reason in our control?

 

[D.Camilleri]

Lrt307,

520 yards today shoulder shot cow elk with 300 gr Berger OTM, lights out and this time the bullet actually exited.

 

[Lrt307]

Cool deal congrats on the the elk!

 

[barefooter56]

That right there is what makes this so frustraring, both for the guys who have had issues and guys who haven't!! I've seen better than a couple hundred elk killed with Bergers during damage hunts and personal use and I've just seen the one pencil, but that was a hit that anything harder than a varmint bullet would not have opened.
We've pushed them by loading the varmint bullets in 22-250's and then shoot deer and antelope at close range on the point of the shoulder, everything has resulted in utter destruction in the chest cavity.
I have seen a guy have issues in a 6.5, legit blow ups on the surface but it ended up being the throat in the rifle was stressing the jackets so bad they were barely holding together, loading the thicker target bullet instantly cured it and his wound channel resembled the exact same results we were seeing.

If they don't work a guy has to change, period but is the change necessary because of the bullet or is there a reason in our control?

bigngreen,
Well said sir!

 

[cowboy]

If they don't work a guy has to change, period but is the change necessary because of the bullet or is there a reason in our control?

Amen: so let's start hearing what we can do to prevent the occasional "pencil" bullet that took me a long time and a lot of kills to experience out of the same rifle, load etc.

I believe it was back in 2010 (5 yrs ago) when Phorwith related his experience of a bullet penciling on a sheep, then you intermittingly heard other stories, now it has built up to the attitude that it is quite common.

In all that time I hear nothing from the Berger camp but crickets - in the long run someone has to step up to the plate and tell me the guys that have experienced this are either terrible shots, have poor reloading techniques, have a P poor rifle, etc., or here is what you can do to minimize this phenomena.

This ain't going away.

 

[barefooter56]

Amen: so let's start hearing what we can do to prevent the occasional "pencil" bullet that took me a long time and a lot of kills to experience out of the same rifle, load etc.

I believe it was back in 2010 (5 yrs ago) when Phorwith related his experience of a bullet penciling on a sheep, then you intermittingly heard other stories, now it has built up to the attitude that it is quite common.

In all that time I hear nothing from the Berger camp but crickets - in the long run someone has to step up to the plate and tell me the guys that have experienced this are either terrible shots, have poor reloading techniques, have a P poor rifle, etc., or here is what you can do to minimize this phenomena.

This ain't going away.

Cowboy,
We are in the process of setting up to work on this . It is something that we do not believe has been studied in great detail as it is very difficult to get bullets to do the same thing twice. This is not going to be a fast process but we feel that it needs to be done and are willing to take it on.

 

[rcoody]

Cowboy,
We are in the process of setting up to work on this . It is something that we do not believe has been studied in great detail as it is very difficult to get bullets to do the same thing twice. This is not going to be a fast process but we feel that it needs to be done and are willing to take it on.

glad to hear you are working on it. Berger does a good job reacting to the users issues.

just as a precaution I trim the meplat on my hunting bullets just to insure that the point is open. Haven't had a problem before or since but it sounded like a good idea.