195 bergers

[highdrum]

Why would you want to use a bullet that you need to drill out the tips?

It's not drilling a hole, like a said use your hand. Bergers have an open tip, and during the polishing process some the compound can get lodged in the open tip, if this happens there's a really good chance the bullet WON'T expand. Putting a wire drill bit into the end by HAND will ensure there's nothing plugging the tip preventing expansion. This is very well known to Berger bullets, not known to many hunters tho, obviously.

 

[Wedgy]

I've shot about a dozen elk with them from 250-800+ and never had one move more than a few steps from a 28 Nosler, never had anything on it's feet long enough to even get a second round in the chamber, but enough people I trust didn't like them I hesitant with them. I only check the tips to make sure they are open and sort anything of that isn't perfect, this is my last 28 though, going back to the 215 Berger in a 30 SM and a 170 Berger in a 270 WSM.

BTW how many rounds did you get from the barrel ?

 

[bigngreen]

Why would you want to use a bullet that you need to drill o

Same reason I check the tips of accubonds being tight or TTSX, you just make sure all is well. I've had tips break of in mag boxes, I've seen them loose which causes major issues, checking over your bullets is prudent, I spend less time on a box of Bergers than I will any tipped bullet.

 

[jweigel]

Back to powder.....Retumbo, H1000 or my favorite N570 will all do amazing things with one of those being best in your gun.

This is based on 195s out of STW. Pretty close to your RUM.

jjw
ND

 

[Backcountry sports]

What powder is being used in your 7mm rums with 195 bergers? And what velocity can be expected from a 26 inch barrel?
I am rebarreling my sendero with a 1n8 twist. And wanted to stick with bergers since Ive had good results from 180s in the past. Is going to 195s a good decision? And how much would I be loosing going to a 24 inch barrel? Ive packed a big heavy long barreled rifle for several years. Im ready to go a little lighter. And maybe a little shorter, more hunter friendly version. Ive researched accuracy and velocity. And accuracy looks like could be improved by going 24 but velocity will suffer. Im not concerned with extreme long range hunting anymore. I just want a rifle thats more hunter friendly but I can still shoot 1k if the right opportunity arises.

 

[Backcountry sports]

Cooper 92 with 195 bergers are great as well as the 168 for long range 24 inch barrel then 1.5 inch brake gun is 92 ounces without optics

 

[RH300UM]

3 bulls with 195's
Muzzle velocity of 3270fps From 655 yards to 926 yards. The 926 yard bull took 2 shots due to misread of the wind on my part
All from the same rifle

 

[oldmossy]

I put alot of faith in what Broz says. And same with everyone else. i wonder why Broz had such bad experiences with the 195s? Differences of one box of bullets to another possibly?

 

[Wedgy]

I put alot of faith in what Broz says. And same with everyone else. i wonder why Broz had such bad experiences with the 195s? Differences of one box of bullets to another possibly?

What I took away from it was that the 215 grain .30 cal was just that much better as he was given the opportunity to see both of them side by side. Most of us don't get to compare on that level.

 

[elkaholic]

What I took away from it was that the 215 grain .30 cal was just that much better as he was given the opportunity to see both of them side by side. Most of us don't get to compare on that level.

338 would probably have raised the bar on the 300 too. No big surprise I guess.

 

[Allen Kitts]

This was an interesting observation from Broz on the 7mm 195 killing elk from this thread;
https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/7mm-sherman-short-mag-vs-300-win-mag.170582/page-2
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"But since I spent last fall killing elk like a mad man (70 elk taken total) and the 300 win with a 215 Hybrid @3035 and the 7-300with a 195 @2950 were the two rifles use most for the first of many kills, let me offer some real world long range hunting results. PS, both rifles loaded to max with equal pressure signs.

First, to the OP, you are cheating your 300 win with the 210 VLD. It is no doubt that the 195 is one of, if not the best bullets for external ballistics there is for a 7. So lets offer the same to the 300 win and feed it a 215 Hybrid with a much higher BC than the 210 VLD. It is only fair to compare hybrid ogive to hybrid ogive right? Plus the 215 Hybrid with its shorter bearing surface than the 210 VLD will actually get more velocity than a 210 with less powder. Been there done it over and over.

Now lets go kill elk. I mentioned the 300 win and the 7-300 were the two most used rifles during a good part of last season here. This included a pre-season management hunt, all season long. And a post-season management hunt. Some nights we even had these two rifles side by side with a different hunter on each rifle while we waited in the blind for the elk to enter the hay field. Here are the results. The 215 Hybrid will out kill the 195 in a way so obvious after about a 15 or 20 elk taken with the 7 I put it away. The 300 with a 215 , not once needed a second shot to dispatch the elk. The 7mm, several needed a second shot. Now, add in the real world possibility of a less than perfectly placed shot and the advantage in terminal performance of the 300 with a 215 becomes even more evident.

This I feel is a great comparison. Why?
1: Because all this info is real and happened.
2: Same parent case were used.
3: Same powder were used
4: Same barrel brand and length were used same number of lands and groves
5: Repeated results were studied with several witnesses
6: I personally field dressed about 50 elk and documented the terminal performance, wound channels and shot placements myself
7: Optimum bullet used for each chambering
8: Both with the same muzzle brakes and barrel contour.

Since I just happen to have both of these rifles in my ballistic app, with drops documented to a mile and confirmed. Lets compare the real world external ballistics.

7-300 win with 195 Berger @ 2950
800 yards 10 mph 3:00 wind
dial up 15.9 moa right 2.6 moa
impact velocity 2150 energy 2000

300 win with 215 Hybrid @ 3035
800 yards with 10 mph 3:00 wind
dial up 15.0 moa and right 2.8 moa
impact velocity 2141 energy 2188

7mm takes .2 moa less wind (one click)
300 has 1 moa less drop (4 clicks)
300 arrives with 188 lbs more energy.

I used 800 yards because the OP was about at that distance for his comparison. And 400 to 850 were where we took all of these elk. But if you want to go further the same trend in results will only magnify the advantages of each.

So I offer these documented results for those who are trying to decide between the 7 and the 30. It will always boil down to personal needs. But if elk are ever going to be in your freezer, under equal conditions, the 30 cal will out kill the 7 all day long."

Wow great post and you can't beat real world experience. Thanks for sharing this....

 

[muleystalker]

I have 13 animals(Elk and Mule deer) I have shot with the 195gr Berger in my 28 Nosler, distances from 150-980 yards and all where one shot kills. The furthest any of them went was 6-7 steps and most were went down right where they were standing. About half went down instantly and the rest were down within 5-10 seconds, the usual staggering and down. They have been a great bullet for me and all the other people I know who use them (About 7 people personally).

 

[oldmossy]

Thanks muleystalker. Great news to hear