Berger hybrid 30 cal. 215 hybrid for hunting

[brentc]

To put it simply, you're fine with a 10 twist.

At any elevation.

The new chart recommends a 9 twist for the 215 but the calculator puts it closer to a 10 twist at 300 WM velocity.

 

[TXAoudadKlr]

I wish I could shoot the 215 unfortunately it can't handle thr velocity potential of my rifle supposedly. First real group I shot with the 230's showed promise but I put it on the back burner since I'm shooting 1/4-1/3 moa with an accubond load I have.

 

[Barrelnut]

I'd go with the recommended 9 twist. Or step up to the 230 OTM witch is stable at 10.
Might just be my rifle, but I live at 212 feet. Temp mean is 59 and groups reflect the difference between the 210 and 215. They changed the recommendation for a reason. And being the pizz poor shot I am, I could see the difference before they made the change. Just saying...

Added twist does not affect speed as much as you might think.
Does Barrel Twist Rate Affect Muzzle Velocity? (Litz Test) « Daily Bulletin

Also just look at what twist Litz shoots the 215 at in a 308.
Litz Dominates His First-Ever F-TR Match with Pierce-Built Rifle « Daily Bulletin

I have learned to listen to Litz.

 

[brentc]

I'd go with the recommended 9 twist. Or step up to the 230 OTM witch is stable at 10.
Might just be my rifle, but I live at 212 feet. Temp mean is 59 and groups reflect the difference between the 210 and 215. They changed the recommendation for a reason. And being the pizz poor shot I am, I could see the difference before they made the change. Just saying...

Added twist does not affect speed as much as you might think.
Does Barrel Twist Rate Affect Muzzle Velocity? (Litz Test) « Daily Bulletin

Also just look at what twist Litz shoots the 215 at in a 308.
Litz Dominates His First-Ever F-TR Match with Pierce-Built Rifle « Daily Bulletin

I have learned to listen to Litz.

I believe you're seeing that your rifle prefers the 210 over the 215. I don't think the precision difference in your rifle has anything to do with stability. Ever since the 215 was introduced almost five years ago, the recommendation was a 10 twist. The new data will not change the fact that there are thousands of guys out there putting 215s down range with extreme effect in a 10 twist even though as of last week's update it's not "optimal".

My message is more for the guy that is committed a 10 twist to shoot 215s because of past recommendations. He doesn't necessarily have to run out in a panic to change his barrel or his build plans because the calculator now tells him that he lost .004 ticks of his BC since Berger updated their data.

 

[barefooter56]

Completely understand. My point is that Berger frequently changes their recommended twist rates. Makes it frustrating for a guy that's trying to optimize performance and deal with long lead times. I also understand that one should calculate stability for their intended environment vs. recommended sea level stability.

brentc,
This link should explain why the change sir. Berger Bullets Twist Rate Recommendations by Eric Stecker & Bryan Litz | Berger Bullets

 

[barefooter56]

Mr. Beech After reading your post you now have thrown a curve at me that i have not heard of. Are you saying that twist rates for stabilizing bullets can be affected by altitude?? My new to be built 300 win mag will have a 1: 10 twist. I have been shooting berger 210 vld but have considered uping to the 215 hybrid. My elevations can change from 4500 to 8500 depending upon where in Montana here that I hunt. My temperatures early season, 4500 ft. average 35-50 degrees Late season temps can be below zero to 35 degrees 7200-8500 ft. As you can see there are a lot of varaibles for me during hunting season here in Montana. I would think that if I run all the varaibles thru my bullet flight program and have the multiple range cards printed ready to asimalate the weather I would be close. Or am I taking this whole thing out of context. Please shed some lite

elkhntr,
Run your data on our twist rate calculator to see what SG ( stability factor) you have with the 1-10 twist rate barrel and our 215 hybrid target at the altitudes and the temperatures you mention. Then run your data on our Ballistics calculator. You can print out the range card(s) from there. That will get you going on this. First though test using the altitude of the range you shoot at using the twist rate and ballistic calculator information to check the accuracy of the data. That will give you some information to help answer your question on the multiple range cards.

 

[Trm82]

I would wait and see. Real user data on the EDL-x should be out soon. I am a bit against the grain on the 215 Berger. Berger list the optimal twist for the 215 as 9 twist. The optimal twist for the 210 VLD is 10 twist.

My 300 RUM has a 28" 10 twist Bartlein. It shoots the 210 Berger VLD more accurately than the 215. The 215 shoots .5 or .6 MOA on average it seems. The 210 VLD shoots in the .25 range. Guess which one I shoot.

I just picked up a box of 215s and the box says 1-10 twist but the site says 1-9 twist.

 

[Barrelnut]

I just picked up a box of 215s and the box says 1-10 twist but the site says 1-9 twist.

The old recommendation was 1-10 twist. new is 1-9 for the 215. Either it is an older box of bullets or Berger is just using up the rest of their packaging.

You may or may not notice a difference at altitudes close to sea level with a slower velocity.

 

[barefooter56]

Trm82,
The 1-9 is the OPTIMAL twist rate for this bullet. This is based on a worst case scenario of 59 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level. Please go to the TWIST RATE CALCULATOR found under the BALLISTICS TAB on our main page. Be sure to enter the correct or as close to correct altitude you will be shooting at. It you will be using this bullet at multiple altitudes. Use the lowest one to get your stability factor (SG). If you have any more questions please either contact us here or at [email protected].

 

[Dosh]

Trm82,
The 1-9 is the OPTIMAL twist rate for this bullet. This is based on a worst case scenario of 59 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level. Please go to the TWIST RATE CALCULATOR found under the BALLISTICS TAB on our main page. Be sure to enter the correct or as close to correct altitude you will be shooting at. It you will be using this bullet at multiple altitudes. Use the lowest one to get your stability factor (SG). If you have any more questions please either contact us here or at [email protected].

Phil, will Berger be changing the OPTIMAL twist rate annually as stated in the Steckler & Litz bulletin?

 

[barefooter56]

Dosh,
Yes. The old way was rather confusing and we found it MAY not be accurate in SOME cases so we went to the optimal twist rate needed to use the bullet from sea level up . If you are at a higher altitude and will never go below that altitude but you may go above it. Then your OPTIMAL twist rate would be different. Here is where it pays to use our TWIST RATE CALCULATOR under the BALLISTICS tab on our homepage to find what you need. Eric also has an article regarding BC changes in some of our bullets also that should be read. If something changes due to better
information gathering or a design change we will keep you all in the loop so you can make educated ,informed choices in bullet selection for your needs.
Thanks for using our bullets guys!

 

[Trm82]

Trm82,
The 1-9 is the OPTIMAL twist rate for this bullet. This is based on a worst case scenario of 59 degrees Fahrenheit at sea level. Please go to the TWIST RATE CALCULATOR found under the BALLISTICS TAB on our main page. Be sure to enter the correct or as close to correct altitude you will be shooting at. It you will be using this bullet at multiple altitudes. Use the lowest one to get your stability factor (SG). If you have any more questions please either contact us here or at [email protected].

I ran the twist rate Calculator and it says I should be fine in the enviroment and altitude which I will be using it. I'm just waitng on the gun now.
Thanks

 

[barefooter56]

Great! Please let us know if you need anything else in the future on this.

 

[oldschool56]

I use the 215 hybrid in a 300 win mag and have killed 2 mule deer bucks with them so far. 1 was at 970 yards and the other was 163 yards. Both worked perfectly.
Jon

Shot a cow elk a few days ago at 300 yards with 215s out of a Christiansen Ridgeline. Found the hollow base plus maybe 15% of the jacket under the hide on the off side. Bullet broke one rib. Don't know how it would have performed if I would have had to shoot her in the shoulder. Bullet retained only about 10 percent of its weight. It worked though.