215gr Berger Hybrid Target for hunting

[Eagleye242]

Here is a typical example of a recovered Swift A-Frame from an Elk. This elk went 15 feet and collapsed.
Lungs were blood pudding.

Here is another Swift bullet, a 180 Scirocco, recovered from a bull moose. At the shot, he just collapsed.
Broke a rib going in, turned lungs to msh.

Regards, Dave.

 

[nicholasjohn]

Hello Everyone,
As a hunter I am strictly opposed to hunting with target bullets. That being said bullet manufacturers have been known to advertise target bullets that perform very well on game.
My questions for you fellow hunters that have hunted with these bullets are
1. Does the bullet mushrooms?
2. How does internal damage compare with other bullets?
3. Does it have better terminal performance at long range then short range? Or vice versa?
4. How would you describe the performance in comparison with the best hunting bullet you have experience with?
There is good information here that I read, most of it, but it's thought to go though all threads specially when most reviews are "love it dropped dead in its tracks job done" - doesn't really help me much.

TIA

I have never used them, so I can't comment from personal experience. I have used a number of other frangible bullets, and it seems to me that if a bullet is of a design that is known to come apart inside the animal, one that starts out pretty heavy for is diameter would get the nod from me. A 215-grain 30-caliber is definitely heavy, and if the entire front half of it breaks up there should still be enough shank left intact to get the job done. I'm sure that enough guys who have tried them will chime in to let you know how that worked out for them, but that's my guess. It's only a guess - sorry I don't have more for you.

 

[Tech4]

Guns and ammo tv did a test comparing Hornady ELD-X to ELX-M shot into ballistics gelatin and the hunting bullets was predictable it did the same thing every time. The target bullet randomly flew out the side of the gelatin. I will use bullets as they are attended to be used.

 

[jd5521]

Guns and ammo tv did a test comparing Hornady ELD-X to ELX-M shot into ballistics gelatin and the hunting bullets was predictable it did the same thing every time. The target bullet randomly flew out the side of the gelatin. I will use bullets as they are attended to be used.

You mean the ELD-M and they also did that test from around 50 feet. Anyways we aren't talking Hornady bullets here. The OP asked about the Berger 215. Different animal altogether. I would also suggest you get some real world experiments for yourself. I found the 225 ELD-M to be detrimental to Elk this year from 850-1100. Both of them bang flop. I still like the 215 better though.

 

[MZmoose]

You mean the ELD-M and they also did that test from around 50 feet. Anyways we aren't talking Hornady bullets here. The OP asked about the Berger 215. Different animal altogether. I would also suggest you get some real world experiments for yourself. I found the 225 ELD-M to be detrimental to Elk this year from 850-1100. Both of them bang flop. I still like the 215 better though.

I shot the 178 gr Eldx out of an 06' and it completely came apart @200 yds in a muley. Jacket separated completely and ruined a lot of meat. But it kills coyotes quick. I would definitely stick with real heavy weights when using soft bullets.

 

[RidgeReaper208]

Shot an better than average sized Black Bear Boar in Alaska with the 220gr ELD-X out of a 300 RUM at 50 yards. Bullet performed perfectly, Beast was dead before the noise report was heard...he rolled off the bank and turned the Salmon stream into a heavy flow blood bath.

The ELD-X/M bullets were not designed for short range (inside of a few hundred yards). They were designed for LONG RANGE performance, total expansion and energy delivery at lower velocities (1600-2000fps). Doesn't matter what bullet you use, if you shoot an animal in the shoulder you will have blood-shot meat (aka...non edible meat). Try shooting an animal with these bullets behind the front shoulder or even back & a tad high..double lung the beast! Dead is dead, no matter what there will always be ruined meat unless a head shot is administered!

Keep shooting & hunting...always push yourself further, farther & harder. Like everything else in life, we get out what we are trying to achieve by putting our best foot forward every time we step into God's Country!

 

[Nomosendero]

Guns and ammo tv did a test comparing Hornady ELD-X to ELX-M shot into ballistics gelatin and the hunting bullets was predictable it did the same thing every time. The target bullet randomly flew out the side of the gelatin. I will use bullets as they are attended to be used.

I fail to see where this test would tell us how the 215 performs on game. I don't think testing a Nosler Partition would tell me how a Barnes TTSX would perform either, I just don't get this. A really novel idea to see how the 215 performs just might be testing that bullet. Until I see those results I must consider how this bullet has performed with many here and esp. with what Broz has observed. I kinda like that personal experience stuff for now.

 

[Truc]

The only Berger I've used was the 140 HVLD, at close range it didn't expand much but did penetrate bone. I stopped using that bullet and switched to a 125 Partition and very happy. Most of my kills are under 200 yards so not long range. This was from my 6.5 Remington mag at about 3000fps with either.

I was wondering about the 30 caliber 200X bullet, if anyone has had any results with it

 

[jd5521]

You mean the ELD-M

The only Berger I've used was the 140 HVLD, at close range it didn't expand much but did penetrate bone. I stopped using that bullet and switched to a 125 Partition and very happy. Most of my kills are under 200 yards so not long range. This was from my 6.5 Remington mag at about 3000fps with either.

I was wondering about the 30 caliber 200X bullet, if anyone has had any results with it

Bergers are not designed to expand they are designed to fragment. The partition is an excellent bullet though just a different animal from a Berger.

 

[sendero72]

We have used the 215 Hyb on several elk with fantastic results. Nothing has ever gone more than 40 yards, with 8 of 10 dropping at the shot. From 50ish to well over 800 yards. I have only recovered one 215 Hyb. Under the offside skin of a big bull. 432 yards, uphill, smashed both shoulders and shattered a vertebrae before coming to rest under the skin. Retained about 40% weight still. Jacket and remaining lead core stayed mostly together.

I use Hybrids (and other "match" bullets) on most game in almost every rifle I own.
.224 69 SMK
6mm 105 Hyb
.257 131 Blackjack (hope to use this on pronghorn this year)
6.5mm 130 OTM
6.5mm 140 Hyb (hope to try the 144 Hyb this year)
6.5mm 142 & 150 SMK
7mm 180 & 184 Hyb
7mm 183 SMK
.308 175 & 210 SMK
.308 215 & 230 Hyb

I have only recovered 4 bullets total.
.308 175 SMK @ 3300fps from 160 yard broadside bedded bull elk. Flopped over dead. Bullet was lost in the field, but probably around 50% retention?
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.308 215 Hyb @ 3100fps from 437 yard broadside bull elk. Dropped at the shot, kicked twice, then dead. Bullet was shredded. 40% retention, 88gr.
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6.5mm 130 OTM @ 2901fps from a 454 yard hard quartering away mule deer buck. Dropped without a twitch. Mushroomed well. 55% retention, 69gr.
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6mm 105 Hyb @ 3101fps, 450ish yards broadside pronghorn buck, dropped dead without a twitch. Perfect mushroom. 50% retention, 51gr.
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To be honest, the two slowest killing bullets I have seen were the 6.5mm 127 LRX @ 3009fps @ 530 yards on a deer, and a .308 210 HVLD @ 2950fps @ 250 yards on an elk. Shots were both well placed, and game appeared down, but both needed a follow up shot once we got to the animals.
Animals can be tough. Bullets can fail. But, in MY opinion, blaming bullets failure is a crutch 95% of the time for bad shot placement, ESPECIALLY when game is not recovered. I have heard several stories from people I know that have had issues with the 210 HVLD. One guy got 4 or 5 shots into a bull elk over a couple hours and miles of trailing. All shots were well placed.

How well did the 7mm 184 hybrids perform? I'm building a 7x300 win mag.

 

[lancetkenyon]

How well did the 7mm 184 hybrids perform? I'm building a 7x300 win mag.

Fantastic. So well, that it is my projectile of choice in my new 7SS.

 

[sendero72]

Fantastic. So well, that it is my projectile of choice in my new 7SS.

At what range were your kills? I hunt the bean fields in South Carolina and one field will get me to 1260 yds.

 

[lancetkenyon]

From 100ish to 882 with the 184 F Open Hyb on elk.

 

[sendero72]

From 100ish to 882 with the 184 F Open Hyb on elk.

I should have referred to whitetails in the bean fields. We have no elk in my part of the world I shot a doe at 1102 yd with a 162 amax with a 7mag.