Berger close range impact

[HRstretch]

Since I changed over to Berger bullets several years ago,I have not lost an animal. Most animals drop at the shot and if not, have only gone a few yards. From all the post that I have seen on the internet, I believe that the shots that result in a lost animal are relativity few (My opinion, my observation). I have shot well over 100 feral hogs and intentionally shoot them through the front shoulders, tough thick target. I have yet to have a Berger bullet blow up on impact and have shot the majority with a 7 MM STW with muzzle velocity of 3300 fps with a 140 grn HVLD (ranges from 30 yards to 350 yards).
IF the complaint changes from bullet failure and loss of animal, to a discussion about bloodshot meat and meat loss, then I think that is more realistic of most discussion about Berger's. If the animals die and you recover your animal, the bullet did not fail, even without a pass through.

 

[AHoffart]

View attachment 119357180 Berger @ 125 yards

Sorry, BUT, I have used and seen many Bergers used on various game animals in the past..Will NEVER use them again on game..In my humble opinion, they are a fine target bullet..but big game, there is much better available.. I used my 6.5/284 with 130's 2 years ago on 2 pronghorn..one at 228 yards..another just shy of 400..in both cases the bullets exploded..completely destroying the front shoulder..with meat being blood shot all the say to the hind quarter..Saw a bull elk take a direct hit off of a friends 300 Win Mag 2 years ago--at about 120 yards..bull took off running..I hit him with my 300RUM using A-Frames and tipped him over..the Berger in the elk had also exploded --hole going in was about the size of a softball..but no penetration.. each to their own but I use Swifts..all over the world..from Africa to Kyrgyzstan to Alaska.. until I find better, that is what I will use..have also used Nosler Accubonds out of my 280AI for various sheep and goat species, also work fine however I feel the Accubonds do best when the MV is 3100fps or less..

 

[d500lnn]

AHoffart, that good info. On thin skinned and light boned game is the only experience I have with them. I've had no issues.

 

[trhall]

I've been using Berger 215 Hybrids for the last 8 or 9 years mostly on antelope and elk, but some mule deer in there as well. All shots have ranged from 75 - 724 yards. I shot most of them broadside behind the shoulder. One antelope was shot quartering to me just inside the shoulder entrance and behind the shoulder exit. All together right around 37 animals. All had an exit, no blow ups, none traveled more than 50 yards with most dropping within a few steps. The bull in my avatar I killed this year and is the only one I shot twice. Hit him the first time at 639 yards behind the shoulder through both lungs. He spun around and ran 50 feet and stopped. I rolled another one in 4 inches from the first going though from the opposite side and dropped him. Second shot was not necessary at all and he would have probably dropped right there on his own if I had waited but with elk , I don't wait. Especially when they are in a heavily timbered canyon.
I'll stick with the 215 Hybrid OTMs. I followed Broz's advice and ream the tip on all my hunting loads to ensure it is clear.
Here's a pic of my 2018 bull. Nice golf ball size exit hole with lung tissue hanging out and the second entrance hole 4 inches to the left.

 

[Philward]

Shooting deer size game with heavy bullets out of cannons at high velocity and complain about meat damage and bullet performance issues, , hmmm...

 

[jshepherd61]

I have been shooting Berger bullets for
Some time now . I have never had one fail me ,although most of my shots have been in the 300 to 650 yard range . That changed yesterday on a Whitetail meat hunt when I shot a doe at 40 yards . Shooting a 270 wsm
Berger 130 gr Hunter Classic
Muzzle velocity of 3250 my ballistic program will not give me 40 yard results but at 75 it's still moving at 3102 FPS. I have heard horrible stories
Of the Berger bullets blowing up on impact with no pass through. I know this is just a whitetail deer and not a Moose but come on 3102 at 40 yards .
I've had bullets thrown from lesser velocity and destroyed everything.
Here are the results of the Berger Bullet I'm sticking with them .

You're lucky! I have had many issues with the Berger hunting VLD's out of my 26 Nosler which has resulted in many phone calls with Berger! First you might want to check Berger's warnings of not to push them over 3,200 fps. Was pushing the 6.5 VLD hunting pill at 3,352 and watching it disentigrate at 20 yards from the muzzle, lost the whole front quarters of two mulies at less than 200 yards in perfect heart shots! After talking to Berger they said either slow them down or anneal them! Annealing them is not an option, I shoot and reload too much, no time! Slowing them down defeats the purpose of my 26 Nos and 6.5-378! Have never had an issue with Nosler ABLR's

 

[SilverbulletMAG]

jshepherd61, I would never think of shooting a Berger out of my 6.5-300 (or anything like it - 26 Nosler, -378, etc.). Can't blame the bullet for failing when used outside the recommended specs. That's like being upset that an E-tip/GMX/Barnes/Hammer/etc. failed to expand at long range or slow speeds.

 

[TwoMore]

lol yep, well I am guilty as well but one rifle i have really grown fond of is my 338 RUM and a 250 berger. 2900 fps. it can shoot it faster but I dont. I have shot several deer with in the last three years, from 70 yards to over 500 and really that combo seems to work very well as the bullet doesn't come apart, I shot a 200 pound buck last year and I hit him dead where the neck meets the shoulder. the off side skin stopped a big mushroom and the off side shoulder was not destroyed now there was a decent hole but no bloodshot shoulder. I use the 168 in my 7 wsm and it is a stone cold killer, the only rifle that has me un-easy is my 7 Ultra Rogue and the 195 it is blowing up bullets and destroying stuff I may have to slow it up a bit as it will scald a round well over 3200 . I shot a deer at just over 300 with it and it flipped and turned the deer and slammed it but it did some carnage

 

[Deleted member 107796]

Nosler Partitions have never failed me. I love reading about all of the other "newer" bullet designs, and maybe will get bold enough to try them on Elk...but....for now Partitions!

I like the terminal performance of Partitions but cannot dial in the precision I get with other bullets like Berger VLD, Hornady GMX, Barnes TTSX or Speer Trophy TB Tipped, probably due to concentricity issues with this type of bullet structure. Also, as a flat based bullet, I'd keep the NP to moderate ranges.
Shown, is my first elk taken with a Match VLD Hunting, 175gn out of a 300WSM at approx. 2900fps. Hit the opposite shoulder squarely at 130 yards. As you can see, no apparent exit wound. Entrance was tiny, lungs were blown up and not much meat was wasted on the far shoulder. As mentioned earlier, regardless of bullet, I can see a case where it passes thru ribs on both sides and just fly thru, but I've yet to see a double lunger like this, fail to drop an animal.

 

[30calyooper]

Tip wasn't clear/open. I've posted this elsewhere but in reloading the VLDs I've found nearly 20% per box have had tips that were partially or severely closed. Plugged tips lead to results like yours. I use a small drill bit and check each one by hand and clear the tips as needed. Never had a failure this way. That said, I'm a huge fan of the accubonds and would never try to talk you out of using them either. ;-)

Totally agree - won't knock the Bergers in any way though I have heard some talk about whether the results on tougher targets like elk were acceptable...and similar comment about the tips...but as someone said earlier in this string DEAD IS DEAD. If the tracking job was not fubar and you got the critter, good enough. But I've had such resounding success with Accubonds in several different calibers that I just don't see the need to go anywhere else unless we start talking about dangerous game. I have no experience with African monsters or big Alaskan bears so I won't pretend I know much about that...

Bottom line - Bergers are pretty hard to beat for true long range work. Rule #1 - gotta hit your target to harvest it at any range. If your launcher likes the bergers and helps you reach out and do that, then you're already winning the game! But if the range to target might truly be anywhere from 40 to need-a-better-range-finder, then try the accubonds and you'll see why some of us get hooked on them. I've seen mysterious failures with TSX's, Grand Slams and even Partitions... but have taken elk with the same 7 rem mag load at 90 yards/45 degrees and 370 yards/20 below zero, and the Accubond worked the same both times. Never re-zeroed, just trusted the BDC of my scope...Bang-flop-high five-get to work. I think that says it all.

 

[Jzeman56]

I have shot 3 deer so far with my 300WM using the HVLD 168gr berger. I took a large mule deer in CO at just over 200 yds and the bullet went in just behind the lungs (quartering away) and came out jut behind the right shoulder... totally disentegrated the lungs. the other two deer were whitetails in TX, both at approx 55 yds. The bullet never exited on either one. One was a high shoulder hit and it entered the right side and never exited but, again, totally disentegrated the lungs. The second whitetail was a lung shot and it never exited at all (no ribs involved) but totally disenegrated the lungs as well. Yes too much rifle for TX whitetails, especially at that range but it was the rifle I had with me at the time.

 

[Don Titus]

After reading several articles on how effective Berger hybrid/target bullets were on elk, I regrettably decided to use Berger hybrid 215's in my 300 Win. Mag on a CO elk hunt in 2017. I shot a bull at about 120 yards, it was a quartering shot as he was turning away from me. I hit him in the shoulder and I think the bullet "cupped" him and did not penetrate. I was mid afternoon and we tracked him until his blood trail stopped. It was entirely my fault...should have remembered what my research had said ...that HT's are deadly on broad side shots but not good on quartering shots. I waited too long to take the shot (he was legal but not a great rack) and I shot just as he turned off the ridge he was on. Bottom line is I will never take a chance with HT's again...I will stick with Eldx's or Partitions.

 

[Deleted member 25294]

After reading several articles on how effective Berger hybrid/target bullets were on elk, I regrettably decided to use Berger hybrid 215's in my 300 Win. Mag on a CO elk hunt in 2017. I shot a bull at about 120 yards, it was a quartering shot as he was turning away from me. I hit him in the shoulder and I think the bullet "cupped" him and did not penetrate. I was mid afternoon and we tracked him until his blood trail stopped. It was entirely my fault...should have remembered what my research had said ...that HT's are deadly on broad side shots but not good on quartering shots. I waited too long to take the shot (he was legal but not a great rack) and I shot just as he turned off the ridge he was on. Bottom line is I will never take a chance with HT's again...I will stick with Eldx's or Partitions.

Exactly
Elk shoulder + non bonded bullet at close range = DISASTER
Thanks for sharing, sorry you lost your bull, hopefully people on here take your experience seriously and avoid doing it themselves.

 

[5shots1hole]

For years I have gone by the rule that you want as much or all the energy in a bullet to be expended in the animal. So the bullet should just break through or stop just at the hide of were it would exit. This way you get as much out of the bullet as possible with full expansion. Now it's impossible to have one bullet with one load do it all. You can not expect a bullet to do the same thing at 50 yards as it would at 500. All we can do is load a round for what we expect. Where I hunt Whitetail deer my shots are
usually 200 to 400 yards and on rare occasion 500. I have a 300 Win Mag and use a Hornady 150 grain spire point loaded to 3000 fps. At 200 yards it has 2040 foot pounds of energy, way more than needed. However on the occasion at 500 yards it still has 1090 foot pounds which is just a little more than the 1000 pounds they say is still enough for a clean kill. Yes I have shot one at about 75 yards. The bullet went right through the lungs with a 3/4 inch exit hole. It did not even go down when hit and ran a short ways then fell. Now at 300 yards they usually get knocked off their feet and don't get up. Hunting something bigger, a 180 grain spire point at 3000 fps, at 400 yards still has over 2008 foot pounds of energy. Almost as much as the 150 grain had at 200 yards.