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Berger 6.5mm 156 gr. bullets. . .where are they???

Like it or not business's are in business for profit. I dont like some of the things Berger has done either but I get it because I'm in business for myself.
Buy enough bullets for a rifle you need when available same with powder or any other component and no problem. For that matter why build a rifle when your counting on one supplier for a component or promise of a certain bullet.
 
I wonder how fast the popular 6.5saum (well its popular in some circles) would push these.

I was just thinking the other day that a 6.5/270wsm would be easy and a lot of fun. Heck, a fast twisted 264 mag would be fun with this bullet too.

I ran the test batch in an 6.5GAP4s (RSAUM) through a 26" barrel and got mid-2900s with H-1000. The .264 Win. Mag. and the 6.5 WSM have the same case capacity but differ very slightly because of case design. I shot both of those in 26" barrels to see insignificant improvement. Barrel length will be the determining factor as you gain case capacity.

The 26 Nosler is where you start to see some gains but only with longer barrels. The 6.5x300 Weatherby need to be run as a single shot if using standard magazines but I run them in 3.850" DBM in a 32" barrel for just a pinch over 3,300 fps.

Without horsepower, most heavy for caliber bullets under-perform. ;)
 
Like it or not business's are in business for profit. I dont like some of the things Berger has done either but I get it because I'm in business for myself.

Many of us are in business for ourselves and operate on the for profit procedures in order to stay in that business. Common sense. Nothing new here.

Berger, unfortunately, as a part of a huge group of corporations, has committed many more than just a couple of little oversights. They have created a significant cascade effect which has affected most of the entire world of shooting sports and hunting.

Buy enough bullets for a rifle you need when available same with powder or any other component and no problem.

While on the surface this appears to be sensible advice, if we all did this then there would never be any stock available or a large number of us would be broke or divorced or both!:eek::eek::eek:;)
 
While on the surface this appears to be sensible advice, if we all did this then there would never be any stock available or a large number of us would be broke or divorced or both!:eek::eek::eek:;)
Unfortunately I think this is alot of why stuff is not on the shelf today, I dont like it either. But I guess it comes down to play the game or do without. Times have changed not for the better in my opinion but it is what it is.
 
Times have changed not for the better in my opinion but it is what it is.

Agreed!:mad:

Somewhere along the line this harsh and ridiculous new business plan came into being and many of the component manufacturers/suppliers are following along like lemmings. We are the ones suffering, not the manufacturers!:eek::(
 
I've tested more than a few 147 & 180 ELD-M on Elk and deer, and I stand with 257 Tony.
They straight up kill.

It's pretty hilarious to suggest that Bergers are designed for hunting and not some of the other "target bullets".

I've actually found Eld-m's more reliable than Bergers in multiple calibers, they're certainly stronger.

Here comes the pitch forks :p
No pitchforks, but I prefer my bullets to expand, that is why I chose to stop using the 147's. Two videoed, documented and photographed shots at 980 yards on a pronghorn where they entered and exited acting like a full metal jacket with zero expansion and very little internal damage, I felt, was enough evidence for myself. Also the fact that in 13 kills, I had three of them not exit. With the 140 Berger, in the neighborhood of 30 kills, never once did a bullet fail to exit. As far as any other eld-m or eld-x, I have not tested them and they may very well be fantastic. I can't say either way.

As far as my hilarious suggestion, none of the "target" bullets were designed for hunting, that is why the box saus "target". However that doesn't mean they don't work for such a use, I obviously believe this as I use them. As an example, bergers were not intentionally designed for hunting, but they worked, however they found that the jackets on their original design would sometimes come apart under heavy stress (long shot strings, rough bores, extreme velocities, etc.) So they designed their "target" bullets with a thicker jacket to hold up ti more abuse. The difference between the target and hunting line, other than the jacket, is that the target line haven't been tested in ballistic gel by the company, at least not that they advertise.

I'm honestly just suprised that feathers got ruffled simply because I made a statement that the brand new, untested, zero terminal ballistic knowledge known A-Tip bullet was not designed for hunting, because it wasn't. And already so much defensiveness. Never once did I say it won't work for it. Simply that the 156 Berger is being designed for hunting, as opposed to the A-tip bullet.

That is far enough off subject however. Still waiting to hear from Berger.
 
Berger sent the Gen 1 155's out for testing results in the field back in 2017. Berger wanted to tweak something after the feedback they got. Then came the purchase of Berger and the rest is history.

Does the brain trust here think Berger will mass produce and sell the Gen 2 156's Hunting Bullet without field testing reports? I don't think they will. My best guess is a production run in winter or fall of 2020.
 
have been using multiple brands of bullets in several of my wildcats with awesome performance , on game, targets and rocks in the mountains here in Alaska ...

Always willing to test and shoot different brands of bullets and have been over the years, definitely not "sold out" or have been "bought" by any mfg ...

like some experts appear to have been, fairly easy to spot them

THe infatuation with Berger could provide an even better example.
 
I got an email back from Berger this morning:

Hi Lance,

We don't have an ETA at this time for that bullet, but it is getting closer. For the past few months, we've basically been in a holding pattern with our R&D team waiting to finish some testing. Our production demand was simply too high and we were too far behind to continue working on a new bullet while we could barely keep up with our current lineup. We did get word that testing has resumed on that 156gr so hopefully we are nearing the finish line for it. I know its one of the more highly anticipated items, we just haven't been given any solid dates yet. Its my personal hope that we get it out in time for fall hunting seasons.

Corey Schwanz
Technical Support
Capstone Precision Group, LLC
 
In business you never rest in your laurels. If you find yourself in the lead you try to crush the competition so they can't get back in the game. They should have rolled out EOL bullets in every caliber from .243-.338. This is the case I made to them for a better 257 bullet. Even though that is a relatively small market, it was bound happen and if I were Berger I would want to be the first to market. Now blackjack got their foot in the door. Hornady and sierra are making strides.

I run my own business and don't begrudge Berger their profits, but I would have reinvested enough to fund development keeping me out front and increased production so that no customer could be lured away.
 
No pitchforks, but I prefer my bullets to expand, that is why I chose to stop using the 147's. Two videoed, documented and photographed shots at 980 yards on a pronghorn where they entered and exited acting like a full metal jacket with zero expansion and very little internal damage, I felt, was enough evidence for myself. Also the fact that in 13 kills, I had three of them not exit. With the 140 Berger, in the neighborhood of 30 kills, never once did a bullet fail to exit. As far as any other eld-m or eld-x, I have not tested them and they may very well be fantastic. I can't say either way.

As far as my hilarious suggestion, none of the "target" bullets were designed for hunting, that is why the box saus "target". However that doesn't mean they don't work for such a use, I obviously believe this as I use them. As an example, bergers were not intentionally designed for hunting, but they worked, however they found that the jackets on their original design would sometimes come apart under heavy stress (long shot strings, rough bores, extreme velocities, etc.) So they designed their "target" bullets with a thicker jacket to hold up ti more abuse. The difference between the target and hunting line, other than the jacket, is that the target line haven't been tested in ballistic gel by the company, at least not that they advertise.

I'm honestly just suprised that feathers got ruffled simply because I made a statement that the brand new, untested, zero terminal ballistic knowledge known A-Tip bullet was not designed for hunting, because it wasn't. And already so much defensiveness. Never once did I say it won't work for it. Simply that the 156 Berger is being designed for hunting, as opposed to the A-tip bullet.

That is far enough off subject however. Still waiting to hear from Berger.
I don't care how you spin it, Bergers perform very similar to other match bullets.
I've had them explode at close range, and pencil through at med range.

I've been killing deer and elk with A max and Eld-m's for over a decade and never once experienced a failure to expand, I have seen them explode at close range though which is why I only shoot bonded bullets inside 300 yards.

As for the 147's I put my bull down last season at 940 with that bullet and it expanded beautifully.
I won't shoot an elk with a 6.5 at that range again because there was poor terminal performance from lack of energy.

In my opinion a 6.5 is a terrible choice for hunting big game beyond 700 yards with ANY bullet.
I'll be sticking with my 7mm or 300 for the 900 yard stuff

I'm with you on the new A tips they have not been proven on game, and we should be skeptical.


I don't have ballistic gell but I'll keep posting my four legged ELDM testing on here, and I won't hesitate to report any failures.
 
I don't care how you spin it, Bergers perform very similar to other match bullets.
I've had them explode at close range, and pencil through at med range.

I've been killing deer and elk with A max and Eld-m's for over a decade and never once experienced a failure to expand, I have seen them explode at close range though which is why I only shoot bonded bullets inside 300 yards.

As for the 147's I put my bull down last season at 940 with that bullet and it expanded beautifully.
I won't shoot an elk with a 6.5 at that range again because there was poor terminal performance from lack of energy.

In my opinion a 6.5 is a terrible choice for hunting big game beyond 700 yards with ANY bullet.
I'll be sticking with my 7mm or 300 for the 900 yard stuff

I'm with you on the new A tips they have not been proven on game, and we should be skeptical.


I don't have ballistic gell but I'll keep posting my four legged ELDM testing on here, and I won't hesitate to report any failures.
I think the main reason for the failures I observed in the pronghorn was lack of heavy muscle to help the bullet expand. Both impacts were behind the shoulder in the ribs, which are very thin, and the muscle there is paper thin on a goat. I honestly think had the bullets even hit the heavier shoulder muscle, they would have expanded. But with such little resistance as the rib cage of a pronghorn with just over 2000 fps, just wasn't enough for the bullet to expand. When I shot my bull elk at a little over 800 yds, they both expanded, even one just through the ribs.

However, I want my bullets to expand, even on a hit through the ribs of a pronghorn at extended ranges. I know the 140 h-vld Bergers do this, I shot a pronghorn behind the shoulder through the ribs at 875 yards with them, starting at 2930 fps. I have also always opened the tips of my bergers with a wire drill as well. This may have prevented any of the lack of expansion some people report.
 
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Cody I have shot half a dozen bulls out to 600 with my 6.5x300wsm running 3220 and the Berger 140 VLD have performed flawlessly.
 
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