Beginner caliber

[bigngreen]

Took this goat at 300 yards on the nose, I expected a little bit of a smack down so I held back. The bullet hit low under the back lobes of the lungs, the force was enough to pull the heart out of her chest and blow her diaphragm out and her stomach was hanging out the entrance. She still ran a little ways which I was shocked to see but there was gore all over the place leading to her. The camera makes it look like that is all knarly blood shot but it's not and it cleaned up easy, this is the exit.



This goat my buddy took with the same rifle at 965yards if I remember right, nice clean hole in and a inch and a half hole maybe in the lungs with some bruising and a clean exit, she ran in a little circle then tipped over right before he sent another.
Entrance pic. She's laying just below the timber line on the other side of the valley in the second pic.

 

[benchracer]

Thanks for posting your pics. Very educational!

I have read of some hunters in Africa using solids on some of the really small plains game animals there (dik-dik for example) to prevent that sort of situation.

In the smaller, lighter, faster calibers that I have (.264WM and 6.5-284), I have been developing a long range load and a short range load in an attempt to prevent carnage at shorter ranges.

I never would have expected the same issue with the larger stuff. I am really interested in the Savage .338 Lapuas and have about convinced myself to buy one at some point. I am thinking that, if I were to go that route, it might be a good idea to develop a short range load with a Barnes and a long range load with a Berger.

Interesting stuff...

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks for posting your pics. Very educational!

I have read of some hunters in Africa using solids on some of the really small plains game animals there (dik-dik for example) to prevent that sort of situation.

In the smaller, lighter, faster calibers that I have (.264WM and 6.5-284), I have been developing a long range load and a short range load in an attempt to prevent carnage at shorter ranges.

I never would have expected the same issue with the larger stuff. I am really interested in the Savage .338 Lapuas and have about convinced myself to buy one at some point. I am thinking that, if I were to go that route, it might be a good idea to develop a short range load with a Barnes and a long range load with a Berger.

Interesting stuff...

That's what I did with my 300 RUM a couple years ago. 180 E-Tips for up close and 210 Bergers for LR. Fortunately, their windage zero was almost identical which made it simple.

The E-Tips were zeroed to 300 yds which gave them a point blank trajectory to 350 yds. Beyond that,it was an easy hold over to 500 yds. Beyond 500 the Bergers would be used. If the E-Tips were zeroed to 300, the Bergers were zeroed to let's say 260 at the same scope setting. You just use that zero for the Berger ballisitcs and good to go for dialing any distance. I usually kept an E-Tip in the chamber with Bergers in a buttstock ammo carrier or belt ammo carrier. I figured that the shorter shots would require quicker reaction.

 

[cohunter14]

Looking to get into lr hunting and target shooting. Have 1000yd range and hunting opportunities out to atleast that for whitetail. I would like to make it out west a few times too for elk and antelope. I have basic rifle skill(marine bootcamp) and i hunt and harvest deer every year out to 200yds.I'm looking for a caliber that I'd be comfortable shooting and taking game out to 8-1000yds. Rifle suggestions for hunting purposes will also be appreciated. Thanks Ed

I know you are thinking 338 at this point, which I think is a fine choice, but I just want to play devils advocate for a second...

In my opinion (and I think bigngreen mentioned something about this) a 338 would be a solid choice BEYOND 1,000 yards for any of these animals. Inside of that, any of the solid 7mm (7MAG, 7STW, 7RUM) or 300's (300SM, 300WM, 300RUM) would be more than enough, even on elk. Obviously the 7's are stretched a little bit to get all the way to 1,000 on elk, but you can probably see my point. You are probably going to shoot more animals inside of 800 than outside of 1,000. Having said that, I don't really see any need for a 338 for you unless you are looking to poke elk beyond 1,000 yards.

I faced a similar choice to what you are looking at (one rifle for deer, antelope and elk) and I can tell you that I decided on one of these other choices. I didn't really want to see what a 338 would do to a deer that pops up in the woods at 50 yards. It also allowed me to choose one bullet for all animals, so I don't have to worry about multiple ballistics.

One other thing I wanted to throw out there is to take a look at the Rem700 Sendero's. I don't think anyone mentioned those, but it is another great option. Good luck with your choice!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Inside of that, any of the solid 7mm (7MAG, 7STW, 7RUM) or 300's (300SM, 300WM, 300RUM) would be more than enough, even on elk. Obviously the 7's are stretched a little bit to get all the way to 1,000 on elk, but you can probably see my point.

I would not hesitate to use a 7STW on a 1000 yd bull elk with the right bullet and under good conditions, but I would hesitate to shoot one with a 7RM because that is plain stretching their capability to the max. I would also hesitate to use a 300 WSM depending on conditions. I would like to see 2000 fps velocity with a 308 cal 180 gr bullet or 1800 fps velocity with a 215 gr bullet.

On the rest of your post I pretty much agree. A 338 is more than needed for other game inside of a 1000 yardsa nd one could choose to go with a 300 WM or 300 RUM and still have a good 1000 yd elk rifle. In fact, based on my calculations using a 230 gr hybrid out of a 300 RUM, I am probably good to go to 1200 - 1500 yds in most elk country ranging 3000'-9000' in elevation as long as the rifle and shooter are up to it.

But... the 338 will do the same thing a little better with a bigger hole.

The way I see it, go with a lesser rifle more suited to deer size game out to 1000 yds and cut back your max elk range a little or go big and be capable of anything comfortably beyond 1000 yds.

 

[Hurl427]

Hmmm, 300rum looks nice. If I'm reading correctly its less than the 338 and more than the 300wm?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Hmmm, 300rum looks nice. If I'm reading correctly its less than the 338 and more than the 300wm?

That is correct. The Rum will get you as far a 338 for bullet expansion, but the 338 will make a bigger hole and deliver more mass.

 

[cohunter14]

I would not hesitate to use a 7STW on a 1000 yd bull elk with the right bullet and under good conditions, but I would hesitate to shoot one with a 7RM because that is plain stretching their capability to the max. I would also hesitate to use a 300 WSM depending on conditions. I would like to see 2000 fps velocity with a 308 cal 180 gr bullet or 1800 fps velocity with a 215 gr bullet.

On the rest of your post I pretty much agree. A 338 is more than needed for other game inside of a 1000 yardsa nd one could choose to go with a 300 WM or 300 RUM and still have a good 1000 yd elk rifle. In fact, based on my calculations using a 230 gr hybrid out of a 300 RUM, I am probably good to go to 1200 - 1500 yds in most elk country ranging 3000'-9000' in elevation as long as the rifle and shooter are up to it.

But... the 338 will do the same thing a little better with a bigger hole.

The way I see it, go with a lesser rifle more suited to deer size game out to 1000 yds and cut back your max elk range a little or go big and be capable of anything comfortably beyond 1000 yds.

Yeah, that is basically what I meant by stretching the 7, and I know it can be a little stretch for the WSM as well...we are on the exact same page.

With the 300 RUM you can easily push the 215 Hybrid over 3,000 fps. Plug those numbers into a ballistics calc and you will see that it will kill anything at well over 1,200 yards.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Yeah, that is basically what I meant by stretching the 7, and I know it can be a little stretch for the WSM as well...we are on the exact same page.

With the 300 RUM you can easily push the 215 Hybrid over 3,000 fps. Plug those numbers into a ballistics calc and you will see that it will kill anything at well over 1,200 yards.

I figure I can get 3100 fps with the 215 and Retumbo and 3000 fps with the 230 and RL33 in a 27" barrel. Maybe a little more with a nitrided 5C barrel. I'll be finding out soon.

 

[Hurl427]

so, I'm thinking between the 300 mag, 300 rum or 338 edge. thoughts in each?

 

[Crusty Buck]

Hurl427, I knew a guy in Colorado that got his Elk every year with a 300 Savage (less power than the 308 Win). He knew his limit was 250 yds. or less and delivered the payload to the lungs. I personally would not shoot at an Elk over 350 yds. away with the 308 Win. I like the round and use it as my 500 yd. bench gun every winter. I also have a 300 Win Mag that I use for filling the freezer. it's overkill in the woods, but nice for those 600 yd. open shots. If I were to try to take a Deer or Elk beyond 500 yds., I would use my 300 Win Mag. It's very accurate and easy to shoot. A 7mm Rem Mag would also be a good choice, good BC, good SD, and Velocity. If your trying to go tactical in appearance, you are more likely to find the 308 Win or 300 Win Mag. Do not take me wrong, the 308 Win is a great cartridge, but it does have it's limits. Good Luck.

Crusty Buck

 

[cohunter14]

so, I'm thinking between the 300 mag, 300 rum or 338 edge. thoughts in each?

I would say one of the 300's...from there, it's just a matter of increased speed and maximum distance for the RUM, but along with that comes increased recoil as well.

 

[Crusty Buck]

cohunter14,

I agree with 99% of your statement. The 1% I hold in reservation is that the sectional density of the bullet makes a big difference as well. Some of the slower moving 6.5 mm's and 7 mm's have excellent sectional density. Depending on the load, they can often be made to approximate some of the standard loads of the 300's. For a shot over 500 yds. on an Elk, I'm in your camp with the 300's. Does anyone out there have any experience with the 30-06 necked down to 6.5 mm ? That might be a sweet one for a beginner in long range hunting

Crusty Buck

 

[cohunter14]

cohunter14,

I agree with 99% of your statement. The 1% I hold in reservation is that the sectional density of the bullet makes a big difference as well. Some of the slower moving 6.5 mm's and 7 mm's have excellent sectional density. Depending on the load, they can often be made to approximate some of the standard loads of the 300's. For a shot over 500 yds. on an Elk, I'm in your camp with the 300's. Does anyone out there have any experience with the 30-06 necked down to 6.5 mm ? That might be a sweet one for a beginner in long range hunting

Crusty Buck

Yes, obviously you can shoot a lot of paper or smaller game with calibers like that, but when the conversation includes 1,000 yards and elk, I think those are out of the equation.