Barrel break in accuracy

[Chas1]

Yeah, I'm using nylon brushes. Run it through about a dozen times, then patches until they come out clean.

+1.

 

[cabelasken]

After doing the break in and getting a load to print good groups, does your rifle require a couple of fouling shots after a cleaning? I have some rifles that don't and one - a custom that requires 2 fouling shots before settling in. Is there a fixable reason for this?

 

[Shane Lindsey]

Voodoo man, voodoo.

Kick a cat, throw some salt....Voodoo

I have started just shooting three, clean it, shoot three, clean it, shoot five, clean it...break in done. If a custom barrel won't shoot after that, it is other issues...Usually me

 

[spladi]

If you haven't jumped the Hammers a bit, give them a running start, say start at .050" off the lands. Or seat them to the first band.

I am actually going through this with a rifle myself. It just has not given me good groups with a few bullets, powder, primer combos yet. Enough that adding up prices on expended components, are about half a barrels worth. And these days that's alot of components $$$.

I guess you have made sure everything else about your rifle is A-OK My first suspect would be the firing pin spring and then whatever might be stressed...........cleaning to much?

 

[Shane Lindsey]

cleaning to much?

No such thing. I am not in the "don't clean it till accuracy drops off camp".

 

[spladi]

No such thing. I am not in the "don't clean it till accuracy drops off camp".

I'm not either but I have three rifles I shoot that need more than 15 rounds to settle down after cleaning, a Tikka, a Krieger and a 26" Ruger

 

[Zorack]

So, I just got my rifle back from the gunsmith where I had a new Hart barrel put on, and some work done to the receiver. Caliber is 25-06. I'm just a little disappointed in the fact that with 116 grain hammers, I can only get to 3.050 OAL before I'm into the lands, but not sure I'm concerned with that yet. First 20 rounds thru the barrel have yielded pretty mediocre results as far as accuracy, so I guess my question is this. Would it be normal for a rifle to shoot more accurately after say, a hundred rounds are put through it, or not so much. I haven't done any load work-up yet. I figure I need to get some rounds thru it before I go there, but just curious as to what you really good shooters' opinions are as to accuracy and a new barrel.

You really shouldn't be that concerned with accuracy during break-in. Most barrels aren't fully broke in till around 200 to 250rds, that's where your speeds generally level off from my experiences.

 

[Rocketeer77]

use a plastic bore brush. Bronze brushes tend to mimic copper fouling when in reality is the copper in the bristles that's giving you the blue/green color on your patches.
At this point, you shouldn't need to use an aggressive copper cleaner like sweets or montana extreme or really any ammonia based solvent

Bronze is a lot softer than the harder barrel material so any material deposition onto the bore during cleaning is microns thick, the copper fouling from projectiles would be more of an issue. The obvious advantages of bronze brushes over plastic to remove heavy fouling is something to think about.

 

[redrockranger]

Some good products and your techniques are yours, but I fail to see how I figure into being tagged. I was simply trying to state bronze brushes will give a "false copper" I use bronze brushes for scrubbing the bore and then rinse with alcohol. I also use bronze jag for all other products too. I use
Boretech copper remover and C4 carbon remover, non stainless barre, Boretech copper remove, wipeout and/ or tactical wipeout, boretech moly (For Walther 6mmCR BARREL ONLY) for stainless barrel (just personal preference)
I always start with wipeout foam and hang the gun overnight muzzle down I always finish with Hornady spray gun cleaner and lube inside and out and H#9 oil patch through the barrel if it will be sitting longer the a month.
my break in is:
1 shot then clean, sighter
2 shots then clean, sighters
3 shots then clean, moderate load seated .010 off for data only
5 shots then clean, moderate load seated.050 off for data only
10 shots then clean, moderate load seated.080 off for data only. (most of the time this is 1 cold bore sighter the 3 three round groups)
then every 10-12 rounds during load development. once complete, then only clean action and an oil patch thru barrel following range shooting. I'll then only do a thorough cleaning when accuracy falls off or after any hunt regardless. (paranoia preference only). If I start another load development it's always from a clean barrel.

pretty solid technique if you ask me.
I like wipeout foam. Then the next day I'll clean it with wipeout tactical as stated above. Love that stuff.

This has been known for years about bronze brushes. Much ado about nothing. The pro's use bronze brushes. Nylon will not get the job done.

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

Just shoot it, clean it at 50 rounds with boretech carbon remover nylon brush or scrub with patch til patches are clean and clean carbon from crown. Then shoot 200 rounds and repeat cleaning about every 200 rounds til the barrel is dead then chamber another barrel. We only shoot stainless barrels or CF wrapped stainless barrels. Have tried a few of the shoot clean repeat break in techniques, but the last 15-20 barrels just shoot about 50 rounds clean, shoot another 50 to get them up to speed and start looking at load data closer. Generally, they speed up about 100 rounds a little bit. When cleaned at 200-300 rounds they will sometimes shoot slow the first 3-4 rounds until fouled with carbon. Yes, we have measured all this with lab radar on enough barrels to see the pattern. I can usually get two barrels shooting drop data identical velocities and grouping well for the team matches we shoot with identical loads. Worst case has been a difference of .3 grains powder to match velocity and sometimes one barrel needs another .001-.002 shoulder bump to feed like butter. So with regard to barrel cleaning, IMHO most folks are over doing it with a regimented shoot/clean/shoot/clean break in procedures and frequent copper removal. Since abandoning that practice a few years ago, I have removed copper and cleaned more aggressively towards the end of barrel life to get another 200-400 rounds for training purpose only out of high round count barrels that start to slip. Doesn't always work. When the 5 shot ES and accuracy start to go again, I retire it. Our barrel life seems to be consistent with the average barrel life expectancy for the specific chambers cut in them.

whatever works for you

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

Bronze is a lot softer than the harder barrel material so any material deposition onto the bore during cleaning is microns thick, the copper fouling from projectiles would be more of an issue. The obvious advantages of bronze brushes over plastic to remove heavy fouling is something to think about.

Are we still talking about barrel break-in cleaning? You think carbon fouling is caked on after say 5-10 shots? My reference to using a plastic bore brush is so you don't mistake copper fouling color on the patches when it might be from a bronze brush...but woe be it for me to tell YOU how to clean your own rifle barrel. After all, it's yours...

do as you wish

 

[WildRose]

It's well known that extended time in the barrel can/will pit the barrel over time. Generally 5min, never more than 15min.

Which is why I don't do it often, only when needed.

I'm not suggesting it for anything other than serious copper fouling that isn't easy to remove by any other means and there are a good many now that have no ammonia to worry about.

 

[Shawn Carverelli]

Right now, I'm cleaning with Butch's bore shine after 10. Shoot 10 and clean with Montana extreme.

butch's bore shine is great stuff...I use it myself.
Love the smell of Hoppes#9.. but there are better powder solvents

 

[WildRose]

Just shoot it, clean it at 50 rounds with boretech carbon remover nylon brush or scrub with patch til patches are clean and clean carbon from crown. Then shoot 200 rounds and repeat cleaning about every 200 rounds til the barrel is dead then chamber another barrel. We only shoot stainless barrels or CF wrapped stainless barrels. Have tried a few of the shoot clean repeat break in techniques, but the last 15-20 barrels just shoot about 50 rounds clean, shoot another 50 to get them up to speed and start looking at load data closer. Generally, they speed up about 100 rounds a little bit. When cleaned at 200-300 rounds they will sometimes shoot slow the first 3-4 rounds until fouled with carbon. Yes, we have measured all this with lab radar on enough barrels to see the pattern. I can usually get two barrels shooting drop data identical velocities and grouping well for the team matches we shoot with identical loads. Worst case has been a difference of .3 grains powder to match velocity and sometimes one barrel needs another .001-.002 shoulder bump to feed like butter. So with regard to barrel cleaning, IMHO most folks are over doing it with a regimented shoot/clean/shoot/clean break in procedures and frequent copper removal. Since abandoning that practice a few years ago, I have removed copper and cleaned more aggressively towards the end of barrel life to get another 200-400 rounds for training purpose only out of high round count barrels that start to slip. Doesn't always work. When the 5 shot ES and accuracy start to go again, I retire it. Our barrel life seems to be consistent with the average barrel life expectancy for the specific chambers cut in them.

If you remove the copper more often you'll probably extend your barrel life by a good bit.

It doesn't have to be done with most barrels every time you clean but if you ever get a rough barrel not removing the copper regularly is going to become a very large problem as depositing a good bit of it in the lands and grooves with every shot builds up a significant amout of copper and carbon both since the carbon gets trapped under the copper with every shot.

Very few people will ever be as negligent in cleaning their rifles as I was for decades and it cost me several barrels that had to be replaced long before they would have if I'd been doing a better job all along.

I'm still not the least bit anal or obsessive about it, but I at least now try to give them all a good cleaning every year or so no matter how much they get shot and I no longer let my speed burners like the Swift and .204 Ruger go more than fifty rounds between at least getting wet swabbed and running a brush through it a few times them blowing out the rest with Berryman's before going back to piling up PD's.