Barnes Response to Berger

[Michael Eichele]

The above example assumes the bullet strikes the deer in it's center of mass, and the resulting motion is purely linear. However, there is a good case to be made for strikes that hit somewhere other than the center of gravity. In this case, the deer will get less linear velocity, and will have some rotational velocity caused by the 'torque' of the impact. The farther the strike is from the center of gravity, the more torque will be generated. It wouldn't be too difficult to calculate the torque generated by a spine hit or a front/rear hit, but the resulting rotational velocity would be very difficult to calculate because you would need to know the deer's moments of inertia.

That is all I am tryong to say. Thank you. I realize it is difficult to prove whether or not it is knocking or nerves but it sure seems like some knocking has taken place a time or two.

 

[LongBomber]

First - for those who failed grade 10 physics watch this video about getting blown of your feet by a bullet.
YouTube - Myths Revisited 2 - Blown Away


Second - I hate it when someone trys to sell you thier product with claims like a used car salesman. 90/10 - 90%BS and 10% truth. I use barnes bullets and at ranges under 500 yards they have worked well for me. But I read marketing BS with a grain of salt.

I wish I could say that the bergers have worked well for me but... they are not really available in my area, I have seen a box or 2 at wholesalesports 4 hours away but untill they become readily available I will just have to wait.

 

[Pdvdh]

LongBomber,

I'd call that Mythbuster flick a 'wrap'. Bullet impact alone will not put a big game animal up into orbit.

 

[Michael Eichele]

The video is good and nobody including myself can argue with the results. That video does not use the variables found in a hunting situation (accurate physics is based on all the variables). Deer and people are not built the same way and they were hitting the center of gravity. With a deers long neck and skinny legs with a narrow stance its center of gravity and leverage from longer necks changes those variables. I am not talking about sending a deer into orbit or pushing it back. Just knocking it off its feet. If you stood on stilts with a narrow stance and feet the size of a deers, you would fall over from the recoil also. The way we are built and the stance or prone position we use isnt equal to a deers stance and position.

 

[Bull45cal.]

How many ways are you guys going to try and split this hair? Brian has weighed in with some hard numbers, and physics calculations. It has been correctly stated (and stated, and stated) that the bullet's energy is not enough in it's self to cause the violent actions that are seen with an impact of mentioned type. Let's get back to the "Barnes Response to Berger" thread, and leave it at this.

The bullet impacts the object @ x velocity and the animal appears to be knocked off his feet (like the deer I head shot).

The fact is the bullet did it's job very well, and exactly what caused his head to look like a baseball leaving Nolan Ryan's hand, doesn't really matter. He is dead, and it looking like my bullet 'bout knocked his head off his neck. More important things to talk about here guys, like bullet construction.

 

[ejones338]

I, like many of you have tried every bullet under the sun over the years. I have never been satisfied with accepting things the way they are.

I personally have found that the more frangable bullets WILL kill faster than the high weight retention bullets nearly every time. Almost always with the retention bullets the animal will travel at least some distance, and with the frangable types I have seen animals hit in boney large mass areas nearly lose a leg, but still run a long ways because of no internal destruction.

Growing up I used factory ammo. and the remington core lokt shut them down fast every time, but as my skill increased the flaws became evident. The long range accuracy wasn't there.

ALL bullets have their place, but it is up to US to know their limitations and use them accordingly.

Personally this season I will be using 200gr accubonds in my 300RUM. They seem to be good at both aspects. Excellent energy transfer and excellent penetration. My reason for this is because I HAVE had extremely frightening encounters with grizzly here in N.W. Montana, and I want a deep penetrating bullet when it comes to head on shots at that kind of mass, but I want a frangable bullet when it comes to a controlled angle precise shot.

My eastern Montana hunts for mule deer will be the 208 A-max or 210 Berger, because a close encounter of the toothy kind is unlikely.

Oh and by the way I also have a .338 federal that is a maximum 400 yard gun and so far I have only shot fusion factory ammo with great success. I gave that gun to my son, and when he shoots up the fusion (65 left) I will be loading either 165 barnes or 180 accubonds for a light load.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[300winniemag]

To Eric Steckler & Bls135
Alright i may get kicked off this sight for this but frankly i dont care. In my honest oppinion what has Barnes bullet company done to you guys????
My point being i just see the guys from Berger just Butchering Barnes bullet company every chance they get. & quite frankly i see barnes acting much much more profesional about this ordeal. The people from berger act like little children saying o barnes sais this and barnes sais that about this and that. Well the way i c it That RANDY BROOKS has his oppinion and has his reasons for his oppinion we live in a free country right remeber FREEDOM OF SPEACH. I

I myself have tried the Berger Vld bullet and i have tried the Barnes Tsx TTSX and Mrx and plan on trying the LRX. My results with Berger have put me through the Most GUT WRENCHING hunting expirience i have ever gon through. I SHOT the bigest bull elk iv ever layed my eys on with your VLD in 300 win mag. This gun has killed more elk than a guy can shake a stick at. But when i decided to throw a berger VLD at the bigest bull elk iv ever seen in the wild gues what happend. I hit the bull Dead senter behind the sholder. I am currently trying to put the footage of this shot on another thread. The bull took the vld for a countless mille hike and i was Never able to recover him. I know i hit him cause i have watched the video over and over and over again. you can clearly see the shock behind his sholder. All i found was hair and the smallest drop of blood on a leaf. This was The VERY (FIRST) animal i have Ever shot and lost. I still to this day Know for a FACT if i had not goten the erge to switch bullets From BARNES to the Berger Vld i would have that SOB on my wall looking at him right know and i would not be writing this. I have shot Countless animals with the barnes bullets They have (NEVER) failed to but an animal down DEAD RIGHT THEIR on the spot where the bullet impacted them.
I (Was) Going to put your Berger VLD through my 2012 season. But after seeing how you guys act like children bickering about what barnes sais. Id rather give my Hard earned money to them. I tried your berger bullet and it (FAILD) ME in Flying colors. So i Will stick to the more profecional acting Company and Stick with Barnes Sinc when i shoot an elk with a barnes UNLIKE a Berger VLD it is going to hit the ground
I am a very Easy going person but act like profecionals will u.
(I SHOOT BETTER I SHOOT (BARNES) )

 

[cornstalker]

You should post up the video....

 

[Mutt]

...and maybe check in on his high school English teacher. I have a hunch he might have just crawled into a corner with a bottle of cheap vodka and one round in the chamber mumbling something like, "How could I have 'FAILD' him so badly? I may need 'profecional' help....you know? From 'profecionals!'"

Sheesh man. Those squiggly red lines are telling you something ain't right with what you just typed right "their".
All things considered, I'm trying to take you seriously but it's tough when I have to translate on the fly.

 

[elkaholic]

I'm not taking sides, but I don't think making fun of people is the answer to the real question here...........Rich

 

[nightforcehunter]

To Eric Steckler & Bls135
Alright i may get kicked off this sight for this but frankly i dont care. In my honest oppinion what has Barnes bullet company done to you guys????
My point being i just see the guys from Berger just Butchering Barnes bullet company every chance they get. & quite frankly i see barnes acting much much more profesional about this ordeal. The people from berger act like little children saying o barnes sais this and barnes sais that about this and that. Well the way i c it That RANDY BROOKS has his oppinion and has his reasons for his oppinion we live in a free country right remeber FREEDOM OF SPEACH. I

I myself have tried the Berger Vld bullet and i have tried the Barnes Tsx TTSX and Mrx and plan on trying the LRX. My results with Berger have put me through the Most GUT WRENCHING hunting expirience i have ever gon through. I SHOT the bigest bull elk iv ever layed my eys on with your VLD in 300 win mag. This gun has killed more elk than a guy can shake a stick at. But when i decided to throw a berger VLD at the bigest bull elk iv ever seen in the wild gues what happend. I hit the bull Dead senter behind the sholder. I am currently trying to put the footage of this shot on another thread. The bull took the vld for a countless mille hike and i was Never able to recover him. I know i hit him cause i have watched the video over and over and over again. you can clearly see the shock behind his sholder. All i found was hair and the smallest drop of blood on a leaf. This was The VERY (FIRST) animal i have Ever shot and lost. I still to this day Know for a FACT if i had not goten the erge to switch bullets From BARNES to the Berger Vld i would have that SOB on my wall looking at him right know and i would not be writing this. I have shot Countless animals with the barnes bullets They have (NEVER) failed to but an animal down DEAD RIGHT THEIR on the spot where the bullet impacted them.
I (Was) Going to put your Berger VLD through my 2012 season. But after seeing how you guys act like children bickering about what barnes sais. Id rather give my Hard earned money to them. I tried your berger bullet and it (FAILD) ME in Flying colors. So i Will stick to the more profecional acting Company and Stick with Barnes Sinc when i shoot an elk with a barnes UNLIKE a Berger VLD it is going to hit the ground
I am a very Easy going person but act like profecionals will u.
(I SHOOT BETTER I SHOOT (BARNES) )

Wow are you from the barnes factory

 

[Boss Hoss]

Berger has no choice but to market bullets as hunting bullets after the failure of getting their product certified to use as a military use bullet as the SMK remains as the sole source for those projectiles.

Just something to think about here.