Ballistic Turret vs Hold Over Lines

[Ingwe]

So they do make one. Jumps way up to next price bracket. Wish they'd do this in a z5 series.

Good advice about the 18x at 400 yds. I've never tried anything more than 10x but that makes sense. I suppose one could get his own reticle DOPE at say 9x or 10x as well.

That's a good idea too but you are still reliant on turning the power up. Then again you have to remember to turn the turret knob too

I guess the answer is get a system that suits you and commit it to being what you do every time

 

[zog]

Then again you have to remember to turn the turret knob too

Yep, I could see me forgetting that - kinda like leaving safety on and pulling about 15 lbs before my brain finally says "safety, idiot!"

 

[zog]

d*** look up that scope your self. They offer like 4 or five different reticles in it.

I have a Swarovski X5...it has ballistic reticle and turret as well. I use the turret knob because the scope has to be on highest magnification....under 400 yards the image is shaking all over the place at 18 power.

OK the kids are busy so I got back on my computer and did some looking. the hunter was right, I need to look for myself, but it sure helped to have all the advice from this thread first. For starters I went to Swaro's website and here is a summary . . .

Z3, just under $1 grand, 3x up to 12 power, offers dial turret OR bullet drop reticle, but not both in one scope.

Z5, about $1.3g, 5x up to 25 power, also offers dial turret OR bullet drop reticle, but not both in one scope.

X5, about $3.3g, 5x up to 25 power, offers dial turret AND bullet drop reticle (second plane) in one scope. Looks like the X dial is offered in MOA or MIL, where the "Z"'s are in inch/100 yds, close to but not exactly MOA. I couldn't tell in what other ways an X is different from a Z.

Z8, about $3.5g, 8x up to 28 power, detachable dial turret AND changeable reticles in one scope.

dS, about $5g, 5x up to 25 power, doesn't need dial turret or drop reticle, it digitally adjusts aiming point based on atmospheric data and built-in rangefinder! Really? no more fun math?

 

[LVJ76]

Advantage goes to turret if needed for those longer shots.

You will be shooting at center of mass
You can use any magnification with SFP

While some prefer to zero their rifles at 100 or 200 yds, I choose a useful trajectory for that particular rifle. A flat shooting rifle like my 257 Weatherby which is used for coues deer is the most extreme setup with a zero for 395 yds. Our cross canyon shots are typically 300-400 yds or more. Should a buck show up closer I just aim low for that particular shot.

3" high @ 100
5" high @ 200 apogee
4" high @300
2.2" high @ 350
1" high @ 375
.4" low @ 400
2.1" low @425
4" low @450
6.1" low @ 475
8.5" low @ 500

This is a great set up, sometimes you dont have time to dial up, so you have to know your holds.

For when there is time, I have my rifle zeroed at 300m and I note my dial ups for 400m and 500m, no need for calculators, I already know how many clicks to dial and fire away. Where I hunt and where I practice there isn't much elevation difference so it doesn't vary much.

 

[the hunter]

Amazon.com : Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44mm Rifle Scope : Sports & Outdoors
The glass in these are better that the swarovski z3 and z5 optics.
I have one on my .300wm and love it.

 

[Rich Coyle]

Amazon.com : Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44mm Rifle Scope : Sports & Outdoors
The glass in these are better that the swarovski z3 and z5 optics.
I have one on my .300wm and love it.

I had four Swarovski z5 5-25X52. Also I had a Leupold VX-6 4-24X52. The VX-6 was better then two of the z5's. The other two z5's were so close to the VX-6 I couldn't tell any difference on an optical chart 127 yards away or deer antlers in low light 131 yards away.

 

[LazzInc]

IMO Dial is NEVER more accurate, period, I don't care the brand ,,,,,,
I have used the BEST out there, Swarovski, Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender ,,, they can ALL have problems repeating the dial drop, especially on big rifles ,,,,
THE BEST I have found to use in the field for accuracy and repeatability, even under big recoil is a Schmidt and Bender 4-16X50 Klassic scope with the P3 mil dot reticle in the FRONT Focal plane, so that all hold over lines and dots are accurate at all magnifications ,,,,

 

[LazzInc]

for big fast 7mm-338 cal magnums with medium weight bullets, a good rule of thumb is sight the first mil dot down dead on at 400 yards ,,, that will put the crosshair within 1 1/2" of the bullseye at 100 yards ,,,, hold dead on to 200 and half way between horizonal and first mil dot for 300y ,,,,,

then second dot is 550Y, third dot around 700 and 4th dot around 810 ,,,,

for wind hold ,,, one mil dot horizontal for every 10mph of wind speed to 700Y ,,,,

10mph wind, 600y shot ,, approximately 22" of wind drift ,,, 1 mil dot is 21.6" at 600 yards ,,,,

so simple even "I" can do it !!

 

[Ingwe]

for big fast 7mm-338 cal magnums with medium weight bullets, a good rule of thumb is sight the first mil dot down dead on at 400 yards ,,, that will put the crosshair within 1 1/2" of the bullseye at 100 yards ,,,, hold dead on to 200 and half way between horizonal and first mil dot for 300y ,,,,,

then second dot is 550Y, third dot around 700 and 4th dot around 810 ,,,,

for wind hold ,,, one mil dot horizontal for every 10mph of wind speed to 700Y ,,,,

10mph wind, 600y shot ,, approximately 22" of wind drift ,,, 1 mil dot is 21.6" at 600 yards ,,,,

so simple even "I" can do it !!

I won't argue with John Lazzeroni because you ARE John Lazzeroni (and a paisano) but I found that counting the dots or hash-marks on game was confusing, while I'm shaking and trying to get a good sight pic on an animal.

I range, dial, and shoot. I found it to be "accurate enough" for hunting conditions.

PS: for hunting I usually set the dial for 200 yards and I know what my mid-range trajectory is...meaning that I can hit a 3 inch circle from zero to 300 yards....essentially holding dead on for 90% of my shot opportunities.

My 2 cents anyway

 

[zog]

Amazon.com : Leupold VX-5HD 3-15x44mm Rifle Scope : Sports & Outdoors
The glass in these are better that the swarovski z3 and z5 optics.
I have one on my .300wm and love it.

OK, so I did my own optics test. Last night I bought three scopes and told the store I was going to test them in low light and return two or maybe all three. No problem for them.

There was no difference to me - Everybody's eyes are different; but these 60 year old eyes simply could not see any difference in clarity, brightness, or color. I tried and tried, I wanted the Swaro to win because of it's reputation, but I just could not tell any difference.

The scopes were:
Swarovski Z5 3.5-18 x 44 P BT
Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18 x 44
Nightforce SHV 4-14 x 50 F1

I focused the scopes last night in full daylight before sundown, then at dark thirty this morning I took them to the gun range for known distances. At 500 yds we have five steel plate gongs each painted a different color: red, orange, white, black, and unpainted (rusty). Full moon last night; I started about an hour before sunrise and tested right up to sunrise. I set the three scopes on a bag, set them at 14 power, and went from one to another.

With all three, it was so impressive to see even the rusty gong in front of a dirt hillside in only moonlight.

Strangely enough, if there was any difference at all, it was after full sunrise, the Swaro seemed MAYBE a little clearer. Not enough to make a selection.

. . .for what it's worth.

 

[GoosePilot]

I have a z3bt, a few z5bt, and a z5 with the brh reticle that I then sent back to swaro to add the bt to shoot either way.

 

[the hunter]

Then pick the best one for your rifle, and budget.
I hope you get the best.

 

[zog]

I have a z3bt, a few z5bt, and a z5 with the brh reticle that I then sent back to swaro to add the bt to shoot either way.

And did they add the BT for you? Did it cost a lot?

 

[Bravo 4]

IMO Dial is NEVER more accurate, period, I don't care the brand ,,,,,,
I have used the BEST out there, Swarovski, Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender ,,, they can ALL have problems repeating the dial drop, especially on big rifles ,,

I would disagree with this. A great percentage of scopes I've tested will not have adjustments that are 100% true, but they are at least repeatable. I also shoot a big rifle and do it to ELR. I also test mine throughout its entire range of travel and look for discrepancies, if there are any it gets sent for repair.