Backup handgun for surprise close hunting situations.

[engineer40]

On the flip side I was watching this YouTube stuff trying to see if there was any real world defense gopro footage or something of someone using a 10mm against a brown bear about the time that started gaining popularity in Alaska. There was none by the way, but there was this younger shockey looking dude who apparently had a hard on for 10mm's and was going around killing big African game with a 1911.
Take away...it's doable...I guess..

Yeah I think that was Ted Nugent's buddy.

I had a Glock 40 in 10mm with a micro red dot. I didn't care for the pistol much so I eventually sold it. On paper, it was perfect. But in the real world, it just did nothing for me.

I have a 454 Casull Ruger Alaskan. Sometimes I wish I would have went with a longer barrel.

 

[Bravo 4]

Probably Razor Dobbs, he shoots all kinds of critters big (huge) to small with a 10mm.

 

[yorke-1]

Your 454 is perfect for what you're doing. I've killed deer with 10mm, 41 mag, 44 mag, 45 colt, 45-70 and 480 Ruger revolvers and I've watched 2 elk, 3 bear and another 5 deer get killed with 454, 500 S&W and 475 Linebaugh revolvers. Shots ranged from 15 yards to 105 yards with both iron sights and low power optics. Most of these were "target of opportunity" shots. In my case, I typically carry a specialty pistol in an Eberlestock pack for longer shots or when I take a stand and I carry an iron sighted revolver for anything I bump into while hiking in. I like 4-6" barrels but at the moment I really like the 7.5" Super Redhawk 480 Ruger. Your short barreled 454 with a 300+gr bullet would be perfect for critters as far as you're capable of hitting them. I'm not crazy about the 44mag and smaller for anything bigger than deer at under 75 yards but they absolutely work.

The important thing to remember is that bigbore handguns kill like a muzzle loader where penetration is key. With the exception of light bullets in something like the 460 S&W, you just don't have the velocity to cause a lot of trauma on impact like a rifle does. Expanding bullets like the XTP work well but sometimes you give up penetration. I'm partial to the Barnes XPB if I want an expanding bullet and heavy hard cast lead for everything else. I did have a 275gr Barnes XPB from a 480 Ruger travel lengthwise through a small buck at 85 yards going from brisket to hip, so those XPBs can certainly penetrate!

 

[entoptics]

Got a good deal on a Vortex Venom, so I think I'm gonna start there, and see where this goes. If it doesn't add up, I can always stick it on my Ruger MKII and giggle maniacally as I blast away at various things.

...I carry my rifle on a safari sling, and I'd bet I could get a shot off with my rifle faster than most people could with a pistol...I got charged once by a beef bull, and my reaction time was so slow that if it had continued the charge, I'd have been trampled. It takes practice to draw and shoot quickly...

This is a good point. There's almost nothing that is fast enough for a big creature at distances of "I think it actually wants to kill me?!?!". If it's inside 30 yds, and you don't have your gun in hand already, there's only the elite few (Miculek?) that can bring a big gun into action that fast.

My OP was more along "tightly slung rifle while humping down the trail", but I agree that a rifle in any "casual ready" sling position is probably just as fast as a burly handgun in a holster. I run a 5-25 scope though, so I'll have to do some field testing to see just how hard that is for close up work.

Either way, it's an excuse to burn H110, so it's pretty much a win-win.

 

[dfanonymous]

Yeah I think that was Ted Nugent's buddy.

I had a Glock 40 in 10mm with a micro red dot. I didn't care for the pistol much so I eventually sold it. On paper, it was perfect. But in the real world, it just did nothing for me.

I have a 454 Casull Ruger Alaskan. Sometimes I wish I would have went with a longer barrel.

At least you caught was I was trying to say. That guy looked foolish shooting that thing of a shooting stick and I don't think it (10mm) would be good for dangerous animals

 

[VLD Pilot]

Got a good deal on a Vortex Venom, so I think I'm gonna start there, and see where this goes. If it doesn't add up, I can always stick it on my Ruger MKII and giggle maniacally as I blast away at various things.



This is a good point. There's almost nothing that is fast enough for a big creature at distances of "I think it actually wants to kill me?!?!". If it's inside 30 yds, and you don't have your gun in hand already, there's only the elite few (Miculek?) that can bring a big gun into action that fast.

My OP was more along "tightly slung rifle while humping down the trail", but I agree that a rifle in any "casual ready" sling position is probably just as fast as a burly handgun in a holster. I run a 5-25 scope though, so I'll have to do some field testing to see just how hard that is for close up work.

Either way, it's an excuse to burn H110, so it's pretty much a win-win.

Jerry is definitely the exception.

 

[KyCarl]

I have a Kimber stainless Target II in 10MM and I have taken 3 deer and a coyote
with it. As long as I stay in bow range 30 yards or so it works great.

 

[Gord0]

Does a 7.5" 300blk AR pistol count? It's actually my stalking/deep woods "pistol". For where I'm located I don't have to worry about anything much too dangerous, so I just carry my shield 45. I take whatever gun I'll need for the situation.

 

[preventec47]

I have a Kimber stainless Target II in 10MM and I have taken 3 deer and a coyote
with it. As long as I stay in bow range 30 yards or so it works great.

KyCarl - What kind of bullet are you shooting in your 10mm ?

 

[Orange Dust]

Just spent the afternoon shooting revolvers, the smallest being a 4 5/8" Blackhawk in 44 mag, and the biggest being a 8 3/8" 500 SW. Kinda weird to consider 475 Linebaugh and 454 Casull as "intermediate handgun cartridges", but that was how the day went.

Anyway, got me thinking about a backup gun for close range "surprised in the timber" situations. I can hit a 12" plate, offhand, 8 outa 10 at 100 yds with all my big revolvers (give me a fence post or tree, and that's 10/10). It occurred to me that they'd be excellent for shooting in tight spaces that my 300 WM would just be terrible for.

Anyone here have handgun hunting experience? I'm curious what sort of "minimum values" are ethical for something like elk with a big bore handgun.

1) Impact Energy
2) Impact Velocity
3) Sectional Density

I have a 4 3/4" Freedom Arms 454 Casull, and it chucks a 300 gr XTP mag at about 1550 fps. It's a handy "little" gun that's perfectly suitable for hip carry and shoots 3" at 20 yds offhand. My gut instinct suggests that would still flatten an elk at 100 yds (4" drop, 1100 ftlbs, 1400 fps), but I have absolutely ZERO experience with handgun terminal performance.

Personally, I think a 454 is about the limit of what I would carry if carrying a rifle too. Bigger handguns are as heavy as a carbine. I deer hunt allot out of box stands. I always carry a 44 or a 10MM deer hunting. Seems like everything that gets close is behind me on the right side (I'm right handed) easy shot with a handgun, requires a lot of movement to use a rifle. A 454 just has too much blast for this. I also could not tell that it killed any better on medium game than a 44 did. The 44 is easier on the ears and easier to carry on a belt. You will find yourself using the rifle if you can anyway. Elmer Keith's old load in a 44, 22grs of 2400 and a hard cast 250gr Keith SWC will kill most anything that you might run across. This load is now over max in many manuals. .240 XTP with a max load of 296 is great for deer, and I like the Keith load for hogs, and would use it on elk or bear. My 44 is a 6"

 

[VLD Pilot]

KyCarl - What kind of bullet are you shooting in your 10mm ?

Sorry for the interaction but I'll give you my deer load out to 50 yards with my Glock 20/6" barrel. I shoot the Double Tap 180 controlled expansion round. Works very well on deer size game. Entrance and exit wound and quick recoveries. In fact, most have dropped in sight or on impact. They shoot in a 2" group or less at 25 yards. Hope that helps

 

[entoptics]

Got the Razor mounted, and a few rounds down range. Seems to work exactly as advertised.

Pros: It's light and relatively easy to operate. Definitely easier to precisely aim than black on black irons.

Cons: Surprisingly hard (slow) to find the dot on presentation. 2 decades of muscle memory bring my eye in well below the red dot, and I have to search around for it. I'm getting an extra tall front sight, which should help draw my eye to the right spot (the Venom has some cursory white "rear sight" lines on it). Also, the dot is actually a little too bright on the lowest setting. In low light, it's still pretty flared and bright.

All in all, I think it's just about exactly what I'm after. Now I need to apply some "precision reloading" techniques to my pistol ammo. I'm currently seeing huge ES/SD, and getting groups that aren't as good as I'd like.

Personally, I think a 454 is about the limit of what I would carry if carrying a rifle too. Bigger handguns are as heavy as a carbine...

Just weighed my 2 44s and the 454, and there's not a ton of difference. All three are pretty hefty, but not like an X-Frame Smith...

8 3/8" S&W 629 = 3.43 lbs
4 3/4" 454 with Venom = 3.34 lbs
4 5/8" Ruger BH = 2.64

 

[engineer40]

Cons: Surprisingly hard (slow) to find the dot on presentation.


Just weighed my 2 44s and the 454, and there's not a ton of difference. All three are pretty hefty, but not like an X-Frame Smith...

View attachment 130104

That's what I noticed as a Con also. I decided I needed to either put a red dot on all of my pistols for defensive use against people or animals... or I needed to not have a red dot on any of them. Going back and forth is not natural for me at all.

I think he was saying the 454 is the limit. If you go above that, the handguns get extremely heavy. Which is why I choose the 454 over the 460sw mag. If it was a dedicated hunting handgun, the extra weight wouldnt have bothered me.

Either way, they're all fun!

 

[J E Custom]

There are hundreds of opinions on this and I went through it a while back and these were my findings. I have been a fan of most cartridges at one time or another. so I needed to do my own evaluation.

After looking at the choices for a semi auto I chose the 10 mm.

For wheel guns I found the 454 Casull very good but the 460 S&W ended up my favorite all round.

Hear are some energies for different cartridges based on the average bullet weight for that cartridge. (Not the heaviest or the fastest).

Starting with the 38 special +p Muzzle energy was average of 258 ft/lbs
Next was the 357 mag at 548 ft/lbs.
Then came the 10 mm at 650 ft/lbs
The 41 mag went to 788 ft lbs muzzle energy.
The 44 mag produced an average energy of 971 ft/lbs.
The 45 ACP was a disappointing 464 ft/lbs
The 454 came in at 1870 ft/lbs
And the 460 delivered 2220 ft/lbs at the muzzle.
And the 500 S&W went to 2842 ft/lbs of energy.

These were all average energies and velocities so heavier bullets with less velocity may have more energy, but become hard for some to handle.

Each person has to decide how much recoil he can handle and how much energy is needed for the purpose.

More is not always better, but it is always more.

J E CUSTOM