Army going to 300 Win Mag for LRH

[Kevin Thomas]

The Desert Tactical is of a bullpup design, the PGM is not. Is that the one you're thinking of? Yes, very nice systems, offer lots of options and no muss no fuss in changing the configuration or caliber. Pricey, perhaps, but not really out of line with the others in the field. Last I heard, an M24 ran the US taxpayers right around $6,700 a copy . . . and we're obviously not satisifed with it in its current trim.

 

[silvertip-co]

Thnis thread got interesting. I dont understand it all but it was very worthwhile. Guess Ill keep my 7mm Rem Mag. Thanks.

 

[3fingervic]

Thnis thread got interesting. I dont understand it all but it was very worthwhile. Guess Ill keep my 7mm Rem Mag. Thanks.

I guess we got a little off track. I would just keep the 7mm. Unless you want to go to a .308, I don't think you're going to find any surplus any time soon.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

God i totaly forgot about the surplus ammo lol ya its not going to happen

 

[silvertip-co]

Thnis thread got interesting. I dont understand it all but it was very worthwhile. Guess Ill keep my 7mm Rem Mag. Thanks.

I couldnt stand it any more, a while back I sold my 7mm and bought a m70 300 win mag and I think its a GREAT caliber. A lot more horsepower than the 7mm Rem Mags I've had (6 of em). I compared the loaded ammo I have for the 300 and the 7mm and I didnt relaize til today that there was so much difference other than bullet dia. The 300 win mag recoil is more but isnt really unpleasant. I've only run 100 rounds thru the 300 at 300y then I reset the scope a bit so will re-zero and work from 300 to 425y to the new 600y range my local shooting club has just finished building. That ought to keep me busy for 2013. I may just clean everything else I have in the cabinet and devote my year to learning and wearing out the 300 win mag.

 

[BountyHunter]

I wish to reiterate again that the ARMY initially intended the M24 to be chambered in 30-06 but do to logistics the 308 won in the end.
.

The 30'06 was NEVER a consideration! The USAJKSWCS sniper school instructors (SFC Dave Zavitz was on one of the 3 main guys then) did the original design and testing on would become the M24 in 300 Win Mag at Ft Bragg in the early 80s. BG Jim Guest (SF CMD CG) was behind it also. That was before there was a USSOCOM. We did not have the waiver authority that we have now and had to go thru the regular Army system. At that time I was going thru the same nut roll on square parachutes.

When they tried to get it fielded, the regular Army AMU jumped in and wanted the 7.62. US Army Special Forces Command wrote a "Letter of Requirement" for a 300 Win Mag in the early 82-84 timeframe.

In the food fight with the AMU (who runs the Army sniper schools) demanded the 7.62 and the final agreement was 7.62 but a long action so it could be upgraded later. The 30'06 was never a consideraton for either side.

The history of the M24 was all chronociled in the either the first or second issue of SNIPER magaizine this year with the names of the other instructors and exact timeframes.

Dave and I had long talks about this and the 30'06 was never a consideration! Dave's final work rifle (with an unnamed agency) was my 40x in the old 30-338 win mag with a mcmillan stock. The 30-338 Win Mag was a winning 1k and LR cartridge in those days.

 

[ICANHITHIMMAN]

Ya I read that article a few months ago forget where but it was a good read.

 

[silvertip-co]

I did good with my new2me 300 win mag. Shot a 2" group at 300y with Superformance 180SST ammo. Next weekend I move to 425 and then 600. And I even found some M248-0 and M248-1 ammo for sale for it. Cheap it aint but its cheaper than most Weatherby ammo(as a comparison). Wars aint hardly over and they got milsurp 300 ammo.

 

[WildRose]

I did good with my new2me 300 win mag. Shot a 2" group at 300y with Superformance 180SST ammo. Next weekend I move to 425 and then 600. And I even found some M248-0 and M248-1 ammo for sale for it. Cheap it aint but its cheaper than most Weatherby ammo(as a comparison). Wars aint hardly over and they got milsurp 300 ammo.

Nice shooting and smart move.

I now own 2 300wm's and one 300 Rum. Love them all but the difference in the price of ammo sure makes the 300wm's more fun to shoot!

 

[Diamondback]

Cost ineffective to issue Big Army 338's at their skill set. That is a Ferrari and not a Ford Escort. With the 300 Win Mag they at least got a Mustang- if CDR's let it out of the garage to run.

The biggest factor in the Army are not material solutions- they are mental mindset zero risk factors, understanding training and capability.

You still have CDR's who do not understand Snipers, do not trust snipers to operate, and lock their long guns away turning the Snipers into Personal Security Detachments for Colonels and Sergeant Majors with entourages to follow them around like they are Rock Stars with ego's to boot!!! They are sipping a little too much of their own Kool Aid.

The Sniper's "sticks" ended up under lock and key never to be used.

Giving Big Army Infantry / Scouts 338 Formula 1 $$$ sticks is a complete waste of money. Like I said the problem is not materials- it is mental.

There is a movie in the 80's called the "Pentagon Wars" that illustrates my point exactly related to Big Army's Agile process on development and who is making the decisions.




If you are looking in a certain rifle weight portable, recoil factor, range- BC- FPS, target factors, surgical application, the answer is 338 - within certain tolerances and extensive training / resources.

If you are looking at a cost efficient standpoint- aka "on the cheap", currently a 300 Win Mag for Conventional Snipers at current doctrine levels and ammo grades will work.

I would have personally liked a 7mm mag for lower recoil at a high BC shooting Bergers.




ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

 

[4bycamper]

HAHAHA Hoooooooooeee

Thanks Diamondback for that vid.

That's the biggest laugh today!

 

[Bravo 4]

Great video reference, sad but true!

I agree with your comments except this one:
"Giving Big Army Infantry / Scouts 338 Formula 1 $$$ sticks is a complete waste of money."
I have experience with a .338 and .300 so I'm not just talking out of my butt. Don't get me wrong, glad we are getting something that extends the range further than a 7.62x51mm. But why half *** it?

No need to answer that I know the reason...money.