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300 Win MAG to the brink?
- Thread starter DENWA
- Start date
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DENWA
I have been a fan of the NBT's in the past, but I would NOT use that combo on deer. I would expect and have seen that combo fail. You are pushing them way to fast for under 400 yards. At2950 out of an 06 they work fine. If you switch to a 180 you can push them as fast as the rifle will allow. Again it is knowing thw bullet and what it can handle before the whole barand name gets labled as no good.
I shoot a lot of SMK's and Bergers but I would be willing to get out the old Sendero 300 WIN and put $ on a dozen straight cull deer wuth my NBT load
DENWA
I have been a fan of the NBT's in the past, but I would NOT use that combo on deer. I would expect and have seen that combo fail. You are pushing them way to fast for under 400 yards. At2950 out of an 06 they work fine. If you switch to a 180 you can push them as fast as the rifle will allow. Again it is knowing thw bullet and what it can handle before the whole barand name gets labled as no good.
I shoot a lot of SMK's and Bergers but I would be willing to get out the old Sendero 300 WIN and put $ on a dozen straight cull deer wuth my NBT load
I hindsight I don't think the NBT at those speeds are a good combo. I do believe that they are a flawed design otherwise they would have never made the Accubonds. I'm fairly certain they were developed after hearing enough complaints about their meat grenades.
Again, just teasing you NBT fans out there...Please don't send me any hatemail.
My current load pushes the 210gr SMK at a 2980fps without so much as a flat primer. Can't wait to try it out on those evil steel plates in SC in a few weeks.
yobuck
Well-Known Member
to the original poster.
i would suggest you reread j.c. customs first post.
the only problem is he cant spell turret. other than that he's right on.
i would suggest you reread j.c. customs first post.
the only problem is he cant spell turret. other than that he's right on.
Last edited:
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Thanks a lot !!! ha ha
I just had rotator cup surgery on my right shoulder and I had to type with my left
hand so I'm sure that turrent was not the only misspelled word there.
This has been a good post and somehow we got off the real subject but different
opinions are what it's all about.
PS; I shoot about as well lefthanded as I type so I'm hoping to heal fast.
J E CUSTOM
Don't lump all the nosler BTs into the same boat. You used a 150gr at a velocity it was not designed to take. In a 308 win that 150 gr is a killing SOB.
For quite a few years I used 180 bts in a 300 win mag at 3000 fps. I can't recall all the deer I killed with that combo but I know I never lost a single one. The only one that needed a second bullet had been hit in the liver/gut and when I walked up to it he was still alive.
I have used 150 nosler bts in my 7wsm and have yet to have a blow-up or one not expand.
But I wouldn't load a 125 bt in my 300 rum and expect it to work.
For quite a few years I used 180 bts in a 300 win mag at 3000 fps. I can't recall all the deer I killed with that combo but I know I never lost a single one. The only one that needed a second bullet had been hit in the liver/gut and when I walked up to it he was still alive.
I have used 150 nosler bts in my 7wsm and have yet to have a blow-up or one not expand.
But I wouldn't load a 125 bt in my 300 rum and expect it to work.
338 LEGEND
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2009
- Messages
- 196
What barrel lenght are you using to get 3100 out of the 180gr 7rem mag? also I have had two 300wm get 2950fps out of the 210 sierra. from what im seeing the 300wm has the numbers past the point of useable energy. load the 240gr sierra, hy coef and bullet weight will make it all better.
I hope your back up and at em soon. Your posts are much appreciated as is your wisdom on the myriad of topic covered here.
Coyboy,
You've got to admit there is definetly a reason they made accubonds. I doubt it a marketing ploy to sell more bullets. In fact many of the larger cals only offer accubonds or partitions. I don't want to beat this dead horse any longer but you've forced me.
1. NBT's are great in old, slow cartridges for performance on small deer at distances under 400yds.
2. NBT's are NOT useful for long range hunting as they must be driven at velocities too high for their design.
3. NBT's used for hunting often explode and leave shallow wound channels requireing more shots.
4. None of what I just stated is true for anyone except me.
Basically everyone is different and their experiences are they're own. I have a shelf full of NBT's and Accubonds I just know what I'm comfortable to use them on.
Guys,
I wasn't trying to say the Nosler BTs are either great or terrible bullets. I only posted that initial information as two first-hand observances of non-expanding bullet ineffectiveness with pass through hits in the boiler room. The bullets just happened to be NBTs and I figured someone would ask if I didn't provide the bullet ID.
But for the doubters, I recovered both of these animals, skinned them out completely, and then field dressed and even butchered them later on the kitchen table. The exit holes in the hide were similar in size to the entrance holes. I was able to confirm the entrance and exit holes for each of the two hits where the NBT failed to perform even though there was plenty of impact velocity. Two years ago ago I met and talked with a fellow and he told me he and friends of his from out west experienced ocassional expansion failures with the NBTs also. They eventually switched to some type of Hornady bullet.
As to the NBTs, I would continue to use them, and did continue to use them after those two incidents, until the ABs became available. But between the NBT and the NAB, I've switched over to the Accubonds and prefer them in every way, other than they cost a little more. I find them to be every bit as good as the BTs in accuracy and performance. I find less lead in the meat surrounding the AB wound channels, yet they still expand well and cause a good wound channel. I've shot two big game animals with the 160 AB from a 7mm RM at distances of 730yds and 850yds - both bullets were recovered and both displayed adequate expansion.
I've not yet had an AB fail to expand on a game animal. But in all fairness, I haven't shot as many animals with them, or observed as many shot with them, as with the BTs.
I'm not saying what you guys experienced couldn't or dosen't happen, I'm sure it does when they are driven fast. My point is that like many bullets out there, they have a certain velocity range they work best in. With the NBT its at or under 3000 fps, I too have used the AB with great success, but when I'm duing regular duty on deer sized game with speeds under 3000, I have had not one problem with blow-ups or pin holes, and a few of those were well over 400 yards.
The factors that determine wound channel size and the depth of penetration (aside from bullet integrity) are 1-the amount of direct applied pressure, 2-the amount of hydraulic pressure created, 3-frontal area of the bullet. Bore diameter and bullet weight are constants that do not change after the bullet leaves the barrel
ENERGY IS NOT CONSERVED IN INELASTIC COLLISIONS, MOMENTUM IS CONSERVED IN ALL COLLISIONS. A bullet collision is an inelastic collision.
Another way to look at the fallacy of "energy' dump is the following examples. My 338 Lapua shooting a 300 grain SMK at 2791 FPS has 5188 FPE and a 458 win with a 500 grain bullet at 2100 FPS has 4896 FPE yet there is no way that the 338 is a better round for use on Elephant. Example #2 a 55 grain bullet fired from a 22-250 at 3600 FPS has 1583 FPE. A 360 grain 454 bullet at 1400 FPS has 1567 FPE. that is less energy than the 22 caliber bullet yet the 360 grain bullet will break more bone penetrate deeper and leave a larger wound channel on a big game animal such as American Bison
ENERGY IS NOT CONSERVED IN INELASTIC COLLISIONS, MOMENTUM IS CONSERVED IN ALL COLLISIONS. A bullet collision is an inelastic collision.
Another way to look at the fallacy of "energy' dump is the following examples. My 338 Lapua shooting a 300 grain SMK at 2791 FPS has 5188 FPE and a 458 win with a 500 grain bullet at 2100 FPS has 4896 FPE yet there is no way that the 338 is a better round for use on Elephant. Example #2 a 55 grain bullet fired from a 22-250 at 3600 FPS has 1583 FPE. A 360 grain 454 bullet at 1400 FPS has 1567 FPE. that is less energy than the 22 caliber bullet yet the 360 grain bullet will break more bone penetrate deeper and leave a larger wound channel on a big game animal such as American Bison
RockyMtnMT
Official LRH Sponsor
jwp is right on. The only thing I will add is that the shape the bullet take after impact also has direct bearing on how much permanent wound channel is created. Permanent wound channel is what causes quick or not so quick kills. The general rule is that a larger dia bullet will create a larger wound channel. Depending on how a bullet deforms on impact can turn this rule upside down. If a bullet makes a round mushroom shape is does not make as much permanent wound channel as a bullet that makes a flat frontal area.
This is why the old timers used to load bullets backward for dangerous game close range shots.
Steve
