Arizona ban on trail cams

[PApa Black]

I saw this yesterday and though I share it. I don't use any trail cams but I know some of you do so here it is:

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It seems like Its been an ongoing debate the last few years

Stay safe all

WOW! This blows my mind! I can't see the logic in this rule........ Arizona Game & Fish must have nothing else to do other than invent crazy rules..... Amazing!

 

[Westernhunter6]

It's easy to make a law banning trail cams, but what they don't think about is the good they do as far as managing deer or any large game.

On a controlled, private piece of land they are a good management tool. You're able to pick and choose what you will shoot, but if you're managing correctly, you're not going to shoot all of the big breeders. On public land they are in no way a management tool. Everyone is running cams to shoot as many big deer as possible and a lot are getting killed and taken out of the gene pool.

 

[Its204fast]

On a controlled, private piece of land they are a good management tool. You're able to pick and choose what you will shoot, but if you're managing correctly, you're not going to shoot all of the big breeders. On public land they are in no way a management tool. Everyone is running cams to shoot as many big deer as possible and a lot are getting killed and taken out of the gene pool.

I have no experience hunting public land, there is only 1 small tract within 50 miles of me. I am fortunate enough to have 2 farms in the family I can hunt.

One of the farms is between 2 other tracts, one of which was leased by a club that ran dogs, the other was leased by a hunting club composed of people who have no understanding of property lines or posted signs. This particular farm of my grandparents was well known in the 80's and 90's for the amount of deer on it, when I began hunting in the early 2000's the deer were so scarce the only thing I saw was scrubby little Doe's for 2 years. not to mention running people out of my stands and off my property and also dealing with hunting dogs. I would say my experiences are similar to what I would deal with on public land with the exception of the Game Warden actually patrolling the public land.

I have a couple friends who hunt a tract to the south that is on the other side of the trespassers land, and they have had the same problem.

I killed my first 8point on that farm about 3 weeks ago.

 

[Varmint Hunter]

I have no problem with wildlife management departments that set some rules on the use of modern technologies to be used for hunting. At some point the "hunt" isn't much of a hunt anymore. Drones would be a good example of a new technology that changes the "hunt".

Even more basic restrictions are OK with me. A primitive arms season that limits projectile type, ignition type or even optics will only add to the hunt and keep this special season more traditional in nature. Muzzleloaders that can reliably take game at 500yds just don't seem very primitive to me and actually exceed what cartridge guns could accomplish not so many years ago.

Hunting has become more about technological advances and less about the true tradition and meaning of hunting. The use of trail cameras may be debated today but its just a single issue clustered under a much broader umbrella that needs to be considered.

 

[J E Custom]

There will always be people that will abuse any law no matter where or what the law is for.
It's no different that driving a car, your supposed to know the laws of that state and follow them If you don't like them work to have then changed. As a responsible hunters, we have to set the example for the wardens so they have more time to go after those than don' follow.

In Texas we are very proud of our gun rights and and game laws and we will fight to keep them, If someone is purposely braking a game law, they will be reported. Game/trail cam have been a great help to the game wardens and it would be a shame to eliminate them. Where I hunt there is no cellular signals so the trail cam covers several months of activity that I could not otherwise see,
including an occasional poacher. Most of the time the warden already knows the person from previous encounters and it helps him with his cases.

It is a good tool if used right.

J E CUSTOM

 

[stx]

Interesting. Was thinking about states like Texas where game feeders are the norm and using cameras to see what bucks are coming to the feeders is common. In texas it's almost like a game management plan for private land where they cull deer etc. Also, seems like came cameras would be almost mandatory for keeping track of wild pigs etc.
I guess the last thing you need on the Arizona strip is a bunch of deer feeders and cell phone wire game cameras though...

You're correct! There's no way I could manage the amount of country I manage without cameras! It's extremely important that we harvest management/cull bucks as early in the season as possible, hopefully before they breed, and we've got to know where these deer are in order to do that!

 

[JAYgs8163]

I live in Arizona and have hunted it for 41 years. I've NEVER hunted on private property in 41 years and I'm not fortunate enough to own a large piece of property. The issue in AZ relates to the usage on public lands which is 90% of what we can hunt. What I can tell many of you is that there IS a issue in Arizona with how the cameras are being used. We have very limited water sources in many of these units, as a matter of fact in many units the water is trucked in by AZGFD, RMEF, and other volunteer organizations. I've hunted unit 9 and 10 which are Elk and Antelope Trophy units and are very hard to draw and remote trophy units. I've witnessed the craziness of them being used with over 15-20 cameras on a given water hole. The joke being "The Paparazzi is on the water". The amount of trophy bulls, bucks, and speed goats being harvested has increased at a alarming rate and it's more than likely due to the use of Cameras. This has an effect on the gene pool here as people here are not using them to Manage the heard. They are using them to kill the biggest trophy they can, all the time. Many of you mention removing a buck from the gene pool because it just needs to be done to improve the heard. That's NOT happening here. We're having the reverse effect as we are harvesting more of the best bulls, best bucks, and best speed goats at a alarming rate and deterioration of the gene pool is what is possible if it's allowed to continue. Think about your 1000 acre piece of private property and all you do is kill the biggest and nicest bucks all the time, what's going to happen? To compare AZ to using these as they are in PA or NC is like comparing apples and oranges. I'm against banning the cameras but I believe there needs to be some limitations set. I believe AZ will enact so called "option 2" which prohibits the use of them from July 30th - Dec31. That's my rant, out!

 

[JAYgs8163]

You're correct! There's no way I could manage the amount of country I manage without cameras! It's extremely important that we harvest management/cull bucks as early in the season as possible, hopefully before they breed, and we've got to know where these deer are in order to do that!

Yes sir I agree but that's not how they're being used here. There being used in the opposite way the majority of the time. Harvesting the best bulls, bucks, and speed goats all the time.

 

[Bob Wright]

So, I have pulled back in this thread just to observe the comments from all. We cover a broad spectrum of different states. Many states are privately owned and marginal public lands. Fewer states are the opposite like AZ and NM. Managing the wildlife is a mixed bag of approaches.
My favorite unit close to my home has seen a precipitous drop in wildlife due to hunting pressure, drought and low fawn crops. Officials try to make adjustments but it comes slowly.
This year with covid, there were few if any leftover tags. I've never seen that. Everyone wanted to get out.
Culling the largest deer/elk has had a negative effect and buck doe ratios are the most important along with total numbers.
Arizona does not have near the total numbers of game that other states do. You get one deer, elk, antelope opportunity each year if you are lucky enough to draw a tag. You may be sitting home like me this year.
Poaching is estimated to take 25,000 per year.
With technology, the management of wildlife has changed.
We've all heard the saying " if it were easy, they'd call it killin" as opposed to hunting.
With dwindling numbers of game, ~100% draw rates, recruiting and retaining kids into hunting, is continually a challenge. What's done in your state to manage is fine. In Arizona, it's completely different.
I only hunt in Arizona. I can tell you, that it's difficult to watch what opportunities were in the 70's, then 25 years of drought since the 90's, a population of humans that is just not sustainable, encroachment of homes in to hunting areas, has had a serious impact on wildlife.
Our lands are loved to death.
There's been a lot of negativity thrown on our state in this thread. Fine. But until you've experienced and see from your own eyes with years of hunting here, I can assure you, we are in trouble. With the drought, AZGF and wildlife groups will probably have trucked in 1.5 million gallons of water just to save what little numbers we have. Guess where the trail cams are?
I would love to be able to get the AZ wildlife commission to view the statements made here. It would be good for them too.
Arizona is not what it used to be by a long shot. Quite sad actually.
Today is the first rain, as I'm typing this, in 110 days this year.
Think about it.
I would rather see some units closed where numbers have disappeared if just for a few seasons than send people out for practically no reason and further the problem. Just go camping, I guess.

 

[Ckleeves]

Trail cams are a great management tool, they manage to put a ton of money in outfitters pockets every year!

 

[J E Custom]

Yes sir I agree but that's not how they're being used here. There being used in the opposite way the majority of the time. Harvesting the best bulls, bucks, and speed goats all the time.

Just a question, not to disagree or argue.
but Is harvesting the best bucks "Bad" ? If you manage them you can harvest them in there prime and wont lose them to bad winters or predation so their genetics aren't lost and the the meat utilized. these are considered cull bucks if their allowed to reach this age and can no longer contribute to the herd, so we don't like to waste them.

Most people hunt their entire lifetime and never get a once in a lifetime trophy, But they enjoy every hour of hunting for it. I watched a buck for three years (No trail cam) but let him walk because of his potential and when He reach 5 years, I decided it was time He ended up being the best buck that the ranch owner had every seen on his place in over 50 years, I still like to watch all the deer and get to know their potential. so I can make a good decision on whish if any to take that season.

Another good benefit of the trail cam, in Texas it has improved hunter recognition of the "right" deer to take and has reduced the phenomenon we call "Ground counting" (shooting the first buck seen) and then realizing that it was his first year with antlers and he still had milk on his lips.

J E CUSTOM

 

[JAYgs8163]

Just a question, not to disagree or argue.
but Is harvesting the best bucks "Bad" ? If you manage them you can harvest them in there prime and wont lose them to bad winters or predation so their genetics aren't lost and the the meat utilized. these are considered cull bucks if their allowed to reach this age and can no longer contribute to the herd, so we don't like to waste them.

Most people hunt their entire lifetime and never get a once in a lifetime trophy, But they enjoy every hour of hunting for it. I watched a buck for three years (No trail cam) but let him walk because of his potential and when He reach 5 years, I decided it was time He ended up being the best buck that the ranch owner had every seen on his place in over 50 years, I still like to watch all the deer and get to know their potential. so I can make a good decision on whish if any to take that season.

Another good benefit of the trail cam, in Texas it has improved hunter recognition of the "right" deer to take and has reduced the phenomenon we call "Ground counting" (shooting the first buck seen) and then realizing that it was his first year with antlers and he still had milk on his lips.

J E CUSTOM

I agree with some of your statements but that's not what's happening here in MOST cases. They're not being used to manage the herd at all, or manage a food plot, or feral hogs. The deer herd here is nothing like Texas and is MUCH smaller, and our Elk herd and Antelope herd is Awesome but the sheer size of the heard is TINY in comparison to most other Western states. Again, we're talking about public land. We only issued 1100 Antelope tags last year. As I said, it's apples and oranges. They're being abused here and removing the "fair chase" aspect as well. Would you like to drive up on your private pond on your property and find 20 trail cameras on it? As I said "I'm not against the use of cams in our state". I'm against the abuse of using them, and using them opposite of how you mention. I don't think individuals in AZ are the abusers of the cams, but the professional outfitters that run 500 cameras year around are. It's a problem here and the AZGFD wildlife biologists wouldn't be asking for some additional management of the cameras if it wasn't. Remember we in Az get to harvest ONE buck a year if we are lucky enough to draw a tag. We don't have the luxury of taking multiple bucks in a season. I get it, they're a great tool, but not so much here in AZ.

 

[Deleted member 115654]

members here investing a lot of typing time in a totally unenforcable edict.

Riddle me how it will be enforced ------ LMAO !

 

[JAYgs8163]

members here investing a lot of typing time in a totally unenforcable edict.

Riddle me how it will be enforced ------ LMAO !

It's public land friend not private property. If they're banned they're confiscated when found. Just like when you park your car in a tow zone. LMAO!