Anything wrong with tight headspace?

[Ingwe]

Same response as is typically seen from you in nearly any thread where someones opinion differs from yours. Arrogance and condescending. At least you have made a name for yourself. Thankfully, there is an ignore button on this forum, comes in useful at times like this.

"No good deed goes unpunished" LOL!

That's what you got for trying to offer advice and be helpful to another member.

Imagine how he gets when he doesn't win a match LOL!

 

[Michael O'Connor]

"No good deed goes unpunished" LOL!

That's what you got for trying to offer advice and be helpful to another member.

Imagine how he gets when he doesn't win a match LOL!

LMBO

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

All sound advice here to this point about headspace. Real headspace is a distance to a point on the neck from the bolt face. This number is set as a spec from Sammi. This ensures that a chamber is a set size from one to another of the same cartridge. Now factory ammo and reloading dies can be made to fit each and every time. Now that we start talking about reloading and brass fit it's really a setback number from the headspace.. 003 is a very safe place to be. So if you have a rifle with a minimum headspace chamber and have . 003 setback it's going to fit like a maximum headspace chamber if you use the same . 003 setback. So really the only difference between a long chamber or short chamber that is in spec is how close your factory brass/ammo fits. Because once you fire form your brass it will fit the same. One benefit to having a longer chamber that is in spec is reloading dies will work better. Some dies won't come down far enough to setback unless you grind off the bottom of the die or modify the shell holder. I've been building custom rifles for 30 yrs and 20 of those yrs I insisted that I had to have a zero spec chamber. Dead nuts on. I however don't do it that way anymore. I make all mine Max. Almost every die works now. And they size more in the body areas too. The 3 thou setback number I use is not a set in stone number. I use it because it gives me repeatable results. Unless your from the small neck size camp you know you don't want the brass to hit up against the shoulder. All brass will have some spring back to it. So if you use 3 thou and get all 3thou you are good. If spring back gets you a little your still at 2 thou and off the bolt face. Properly annealed and you will be hitting the same number almost every time. So sorry for the big ramble but this is day 16 in the hospital for me here and this site is keeping my mind off the hurt I'm taking in here. Big story short here is don't get all caught up on tight chambers. It's only as tight as the clearance of your brass. I make you a tight neck dia chamber and you turn your neck to thin it's now a loose fit. It's all relative.
Shep

Shep, thanks for the ramble. I learned some things. And hope your recovery gets speedier and complete.

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Yes it's the datum point and I did mean shoulder not neck. I was going that route because trying to explain where the datum point actually is on the shoulder is not easy. Thanks for the correction.
Shep

It would make sense for the "datum point" to be at the junction of the neck and shoulder, which is an easily identified point. Is this not the case?
And is it not shown in the drawings of cartridge specs in the reloading manuals?
(I don't have any of mine handy.)

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

It really helps to have a shoulder bump gauge. They are inexpensive and make sizing properly a lot easier.

Can you give me the name of manufacturer of a shoulder bump gauge?

 

[milo-2]

Can you give me the name of manufacturer of a shoulder bump gauge?

Hornady makes them, can get a whole set, Sinclair(Brownells) makes individual ones that run off shoulder angle(good option). If I use a caliper mounted bump gauge, it will most likely be one from Whidden, I like the mount up system better and really dislike changing out small parts.
I can supply links if needed.

 

[birdiemc]

It would make sense for the "datum point" to be at the junction of the neck and shoulder, which is an easily identified point. Is this not the case?
And is it not shown in the drawings of cartridge specs in the reloading manuals?
(I don't have any of mine handy.)

Here is a drawing from SAAMI the, I added the red dots, the datum is the spot on this case that measures .375 diameter, and to be in spec that point would be 2.0487-2.0587 from the base...

 

[Tulsa Reiner]

Here is a drawing from SAAMI the, I added the red dots, the datum is the spot on this case that measures .375 diameter, and to be in spec that point would be 2.0487-2.0587 from the base...
View attachment 163479

Thanks, Birdiemc. That is one busy SAAMI drawing. I guess I've never seen one before.

 

[birdiemc]

It's off their website, saami.org definitely worth taking a look at to be able and see what's really going on in there, and make sense of what people are talking about around here.

 

[nicholasjohn]

How odd.

Yes ………… extremely odd.

 

[J E Custom]

Frankly, I'll decide what I 'need' thanks. I would propose that you could keep your brags to yourself when your brag points are totally un-brag-worthy. 4 loadings is not something to brag about. Neither is 12. I have long range rigs I load for that because of the way I do things I have over 20 loadings on the brass for with no end in sight. Brand of brass doesn't matter for me either. I get great brass life with Remington, Hornady, Lapua, Norma, Winchester and even PPU if I want it or I can one-and-done cases if I want to. Depends on what I need.

My cases don't fail unless I make them fail which sometimes I do on purpose in order to stay competitive (I'm really bad about one-and-done'ing .223 brass because it's so cheap and plentiful) because every other shooter in the match is doing the same thing. If everyone on the line is running 75's and 2980fps and I run them down at sane levels of 2820fps I will simply not be able to put up scores that are competitive if the game goes past 800 yards. What I need is to do it the way that works for what I'm doing because it is well supported in logic and reason and physics and it's in line with my goal.

I don't need virtually unlimited brass life on everything. For example, I just put together a second 6XC. I expect 2200 rounds of barrel life. So I got 250 cases just for it along with enough bullets, powder and primers to get there without having to buy more. When the components are used up, the barrel goes in the garbage along with the brass. So, 10 loadings is what I need. Same thing for 4 out of 5 of my long range rigs and I don't want to have to anneal to get there. I'll get my 10 loadings per case and then I'm going to throw the brass and the barrel away and get new ones. In those 10 loadings it has to be 100% zero case failures, no head separations, no loose primer pockets, no belled shoulders, no swelled bases. No problems whatsoever because those problems disable guns and disabled guns make for match and stage DNF's. It also has to also be low enough effort that I'll still do it every weekend because 1, I'm lazy and 2, my schedule is always overbooked.

Your strategy may differ, your goal is almost certainly different and your results won't be a bloody bit better than mine for the application whilst I still get a benefit because I don't spend all the time you insist that I need to fiddle farting around with brass prep. I can tumble, neck size, prime, charge and shoot. Some things I do anneal and some things I do full length resize but I only do it when there's a really compelling reason to do so that goes toward my use case and goals.

I would not normally comment on something like this because everyone on this site has different opinions and experiences about almost everything. Hopefully our opinions will be evaluated fairly and considered equally without prejudice.

Getting personal doesn't serve any purpose and only leads to Venomous post and the subject is lost in the word fight.

So my bit of advice is for all including, my self that If a person doesn't want to except anyone's differing opinion and experiences. They should not post theirs. I am one of those that has many differing points of view than others and can expect to hear the many different opinions and experiences, so I reed and evaluate each. And if I cant explain my point of view its my problem or maybe their loss if they don,t at least try and evaluate it on their own.

All of these post should be for information and learning. also to try and help the inexperienced to progress.

No lecture, just a comment.

J E CUSTOM