Anything wrong with tight headspace?

[elkaholic]

I shoot Lapua in my Creed right now and it's been the best so far. This is in a 17 pound bench gun for 1000 yard. I ran my Peterson brass to 10 firings and they were still serviceable. I did test the adg 6.5 Creed brass with 5 pieces pushed to failure. My load is a 147eldm at 2850fps with h4350 28 inch barrel. It shot these loads over 15 times and still had primer feel. All these brass were annealed and bumped 003. I am getting the most consistent accuracy from the Lapua SRP so I use it. I had some Hornady bulk brass I got in a 200 box and sorted out 100 and prepped them. Neck turned them the whole works. Couldn't even get them to 2800 fps without wrecking the primer pockets. I threw all 100 cases in the recycle bin and gave the other 100 to a friend who liked them. Some friend I am right. But really it's all he uses and he wins a bunch. Primer pockets are definitely the killer of brass and over pressure is the reason. Neck sizing or tight chamber won't fix that. The only difference between a tight chamber and loose one is .003 in length if the rest of the chamber is in spec. That's not going to have much to do about anything. Nothing wrong with min or Max chamber. Just as long as you set your brass back based on your chamber it's going to be fine.
Shep

Hard to beat ADG Brass!
I will say that low body taper helps keep things together too!

 

[25WSM]

I never ran the adg in my matches because in my longevity test it just didn't beat the lapua accuracy. I'm not going to say it can't. I use adg in my 6.5 saum and just got 100 more pieces. So yes I like it.
Shep

 

[BallisticsGuy]

If your cases are failing from work hardening by bumping a couple thousandths, you need to get better brass or anneal. Or both. I was having issues in my .260 AI with brass getting cracks in the neck, it was remington brass. Switched to lapua, no issues in 12+ firings with shoulder bumping. Primer pockets finally gave out. I'm trying peterson brass now, on my 4th firing with no signs of failure thus far.

Frankly, I'll decide what I 'need' thanks. I would propose that you could keep your brags to yourself when your brag points are totally un-brag-worthy. 4 loadings is not something to brag about. Neither is 12. I have long range rigs I load for that because of the way I do things I have over 20 loadings on the brass for with no end in sight. Brand of brass doesn't matter for me either. I get great brass life with Remington, Hornady, Lapua, Norma, Winchester and even PPU if I want it or I can one-and-done cases if I want to. Depends on what I need.

My cases don't fail unless I make them fail which sometimes I do on purpose in order to stay competitive (I'm really bad about one-and-done'ing .223 brass because it's so cheap and plentiful) because every other shooter in the match is doing the same thing. If everyone on the line is running 75's and 2980fps and I run them down at sane levels of 2820fps I will simply not be able to put up scores that are competitive if the game goes past 800 yards. What I need is to do it the way that works for what I'm doing because it is well supported in logic and reason and physics and it's in line with my goal.

I don't need virtually unlimited brass life on everything. For example, I just put together a second 6XC. I expect 2200 rounds of barrel life. So I got 250 cases just for it along with enough bullets, powder and primers to get there without having to buy more. When the components are used up, the barrel goes in the garbage along with the brass. So, 10 loadings is what I need. Same thing for 4 out of 5 of my long range rigs and I don't want to have to anneal to get there. I'll get my 10 loadings per case and then I'm going to throw the brass and the barrel away and get new ones. In those 10 loadings it has to be 100% zero case failures, no head separations, no loose primer pockets, no belled shoulders, no swelled bases. No problems whatsoever because those problems disable guns and disabled guns make for match and stage DNF's. It also has to also be low enough effort that I'll still do it every weekend because 1, I'm lazy and 2, my schedule is always overbooked.

Your strategy may differ, your goal is almost certainly different and your results won't be a bloody bit better than mine for the application whilst I still get a benefit because I don't spend all the time you insist that I need to fiddle farting around with brass prep. I can tumble, neck size, prime, charge and shoot. Some things I do anneal and some things I do full length resize but I only do it when there's a really compelling reason to do so that goes toward my use case and goals.

 

[wbm]

How odd.

 

[codyadams]

Frankly, I'll decide what I 'need' thanks. I would propose that you could keep your brags to yourself when your brag points are totally un-brag-worthy. 4 loadings is not something to brag about. Neither is 12. I have long range rigs I load for that because of the way I do things I have over 20 loadings on the brass for with no end in sight. Brand of brass doesn't matter for me either. I get great brass life with Remington, Hornady, Lapua, Norma, Winchester and even PPU if I want it or I can one-and-done cases if I want to. Depends on what I need.

My cases don't fail unless I make them fail which sometimes I do on purpose in order to stay competitive (I'm really bad about one-and-done'ing .223 brass because it's so cheap and plentiful) because every other shooter in the match is doing the same thing. If everyone on the line is running 75's and 2980fps and I run them down at sane levels of 2820fps I will simply not be able to put up scores that are competitive if the game goes past 800 yards. What I need is to do it the way that works for what I'm doing because it is well supported in logic and reason and physics and it's in line with my goal.

I don't need virtually unlimited brass life on everything. For example, I just put together a second 6XC. I expect 2200 rounds of barrel life. So I got 250 cases just for it along with enough bullets, powder and primers to get there without having to buy more. When the components are used up, the barrel goes in the garbage along with the brass. So, 10 loadings is what I need. Same thing for 4 out of 5 of my long range rigs and I don't want to have to anneal to get there. I'll get my 10 loadings per case and then I'm going to throw the brass and the barrel away and get new ones. In those 10 loadings it has to be 100% zero case failures, no head separations, no loose primer pockets, no belled shoulders, no swelled bases. No problems whatsoever because those problems disable guns and disabled guns make for match and stage DNF's. It also has to also be low enough effort that I'll still do it every weekend because 1, I'm lazy and 2, my schedule is always overbooked.

Your strategy may differ, your goal is almost certainly different and your results won't be a bloody bit better than mine for the application whilst I still get a benefit because I don't spend all the time you insist that I need to fiddle farting around with brass prep. I can tumble, neck size, prime, charge and shoot. Some things I do anneal and some things I do full length resize but I only do it when there's a really compelling reason to do so that goes toward my use case and goals.

Same response as is typically seen from you in nearly any thread where someones opinion differs from yours. Arrogance and condescending. At least you have made a name for yourself. Thankfully, there is an ignore button on this forum, comes in useful at times like this.

 

[25WSM]

Ballistics guy seems to be really into the matches and having great ammo that wouldn't cause a dq yet if has cost him dq by his own admission by neck sizing and not bumping the shoulder some. Why keep doing it that way if it cost you match's? It's just a question that you don't even need to answer aloud but to yourself. Everybody on here is trying to help each other be better or more informed. Nobody is telling you you absolutely have to do it their way. I know the words written were that You Need To. But I really think he meant you should try or look into bumping the shoulder a bit. Then you bash him about his report on Petersen brass going 4 times and still good. I don't see him bragging about it. I like when guys on here debate different topics with lots of outcomes because we learn from it. And everyone on here will tell you there are many ways to do it. As long as you do it my way.
Shep

 

[Mram10us]

I run zero headspace specifically to keep brass life at maximum. I neck size only as much as possible and I don't bump shoulders back unless I actually have to. This does in fact cause reliability problems which bites me once in a while in a match. Hell there was a period of about 4 months where some bad brass snuck back into my match pile and I was having my gun get locked up on match courses, cost me a TON of points and stage DNF's. The price I pay for being able to push fairly firmly on my load heat without having brass give up after 5 firings.

BG,
I was originally taught that neck sizing was the way to go. Did it for almost 20 years that way. Galled the lugs in one action and had no idea that was even possible. After that, I tried fl sizing and haven't had the tight close since. No difference in accuracy. I mainly shoot 28 nosler, 300 rum and 338 edge so maybe we differ in that way.
I kind of perk up when someone says "have to" or "must". Do whatever you want just realize that the reduced brass life due to fl sizing has been disproved by the br community. As long as you make your decision based on good information, do your thing.

 

[25WSM]

Awesome butter. I started out neck sizing too. But I was lucky and got into bench rest shooting early. Got a mentor and was on my way. Last post I made I put a smiley on the part where I said my way. But I spell checked a word and it was gone and I didn't realize it.
Shep

 

[Mram10us]

Same response as is typically seen from you in nearly any thread where someones opinion differs from yours. Arrogance and condescending. At least you have made a name for yourself. Thankfully, there is an ignore button on this forum, comes in useful at times like this.

Cody,
I can understand why he'd get a bit defensive when someone tells him he has to do it a certain way. Happens a lot on forums. I've been told numerous times that "real gunsmiths" blah blah. You see my point. Some push their way on others.

That said, it didn't seem like that was your intent when I read your post, but that's just me.

 

[nmbarta]

Dang!!!
This started out like thousands of threads started on this site years ago, with a useful debate that I could learn from, and those engaged could learn from each other.

After over decade of this, I dont have much for questions, but am always looking to learn new ways to improve my shooting and reloading practices. I try to keep my own ego from getting in the way of that.

I love a claim backed by facts, an opinion backed by feelings is worthless. No need to engage someone that's stuck......carry on, I'm pretty sure I'm about to learn something.

 

[Dean2]

This thread has gone completely off track and down the old rabbit hole. The OP asked about tight chambering a 35 Whelen. He was not asking about BR guns, long range competition guns, 18 LB match rifles or anything of the sort. Much of the info provided is fully applicable in those situations but is NOT applicable to a gun used for hunting, particularly dangerous game.

Fact remains, on a gun used for hunting, built on a SAMMI spec cartridge, setting a tight headspace serves no functional purpose of any kind and can be a detriment. A gun that feeds 100% reliably is far more important than extracting the last 1/10" in group size or getting the last two firings out of brass.

 

[wbm]

Fact remains, on a gun used for hunting, built on a SAMMI spec cartridge, setting a tight headspace serves no functional purpose of any kind and can be a detriment. A gun that feeds 100% reliably is far more important than extracting the last 1/10" in group size or getting the last two firings out of brass.

+1.

 

[Mram10us]

This thread has gone completely off track and down the old rabbit hole. The OP asked about tight chambering a 35 Whelen. He was not asking about BR guns, long range competition guns, 18 LB match rifles or anything of the sort. Much of the info provided is fully applicable in those situations but is NOT applicable to a gun used for hunting, particularly dangerous game.

Fact remains, on a gun used for hunting, built on a SAMMI spec cartridge, setting a tight headspace serves no functional purpose of any kind and can be a detriment. A gun that feeds 100% reliably is far more important than extracting the last 1/10" in group size or getting the last two firings out of brass.

The OP is getting a lot of different views and everyone is going to learn from this. The reloading variables and use of off-the-shelf ammo has been brought up. Not sure how tight headspacing affects how the round feeds? What am I missing. I think it gets misconstrued as a "urinating contest" when we debate a topic. Some do get heated, but at the end of the discussion it seems that 99% of the guys on here are fine when it is over. We learn more from differing views, imo

 

[J E Custom]

i just set up a 35 whelen to run my brass through my sizer and use in my rifle , I have no interest in factory ammo and do not ever plan on using it . Other than extending brass life are there any consequences to keeping the headspace tight?

All chambers can be different, the tight(Minimum SAMMI chamber) is really no different than a large (Maximum SAMMI chamber) After proper sizing is done. Accuracy depends on how well the loaded round fits the chamber. Also the case life will be affected based on the amount of sizing required each time it is loaded.

If you do a minimum head space the chamber will need to be monitored and cleaned more often for carbon and fouling buildup of chambering may become a problem at some point, Unless you change the sizing dies to compensate for the build up. (Not recommended ).

I personally prefer the head space to be minimum for the first firing so I set it from .0005 to .0015 depending on the rifles intended use. on the more dangerous game I set head space to as Much as .003 for safety. I also size the cases each time they are fired to maintain the same head space .003.

I prefer neck sizing only as long as the cartridge can be chambered without forcing it.
When loaded this way, essentially the head space is .0000 . If cartridges have no head space the case will/can compress enough to chamber without effort.

J E CUSTOM