Any advise helpful!

[chromatica]

The vitals of a deer roughly cover a 10 inch circle. The rifle and scope you have purchased should be perfectly capable of shooting a 10 inch target at 500 yards. I suspect the problem is that you made a simple mistake dialing in your scope corrections. I ran the ballistic solution you described:



My calculations say that at

V =2600 fps
BC = .404
Sea Level
Level flight

Range 200: Drop is -3.6 in, Correction is 3.6 inches/200 yards = 1.8 inches/100 yards, so dial 1.75 moa on your scope

Range 300: Drop is -13.8 in, Correction is 13.8 inches/300 yards = 4.5 inches/100 yards, so dial 4.5 moa on your scope

I would hazard a guess that you dialed in 3.6 at 200 instead of 1.75 causing you to shoot high. And I would guess you dialed 13.8 instead of 4.5, and that explains why you shot high at 300 as well.

You probably made the same mistake on your windage corrections.

Don't spend any more money. Go out and have fun with your rifle!

 

[Joshua Huber]

Hello all.


I am new to the forum and just getting into the idea of long range hunting. College guy on a budget. I am from Southern Idaho so I am wanting to be confident taking 300-500 yard shots for desert elk/mule deer. Most of my deer hunting so far has been in the 100-200 yard range so I haven't had any issues so now I am just wanting to extend my range.


I've slowly been building up my set up with a Ruger American 30-06. I was able to snag a 4x16-44 MOA Vortex Diamondback Tactical before they went on backorder. The hollow, light stock in the -06 was beating the crap out of me so I have added weight to the stock which took care of that problem. I also added a bipod. With a 165gr Sierra Game-Kings I shoot 1-1.5 inch groups with some under 1 inch on rare occasions, usually depending on how I'm doing on the particular day. So I have some questions about a few different things. I shoot good groups at 100, 200, 300 yards. Precision (acceptable for hunting imo) is fine, however accuracy is not. Know knowing theoretically at 200 yards my SGK drops 3.8 inches and at 300 yards it drops 13.8, I dial my elevation accordingly with a 100 yard zero as well as adjust parallax at each range so the reticle doesn't move on the target. This is with little wind. With each 100 yard increment my bullets impact farther to the right and up of my aiming point. About 2-3 inches at 200 yards and about 8-10 at 300.


So..

1. My scope was mounted and torqued level at the local gun shop. I have double checked it, so the scope to my knowledge is level so there shouldn't be cant. I do my best to make sure the scope is level at all times. However, does anyone have experience with the anti-cant bubble levels? Are they installed easy?
2. I have worked hard at developing better trigger control as that was an issue for me at one point. I have the trigger set as low as possible, 3lbs. Since I shoot good groups at 100 dead-on I have a hard time thinking its me pulling.
3. I have a known astigmatism in my right eye and I shoot right handed with a righty set up. Probably not ideal. I found this out after I purchased the rifle as I have always shot every gun right handed. Does anyone have experience with this? Could it have something to do with my POI being off to the right at longer ranges? Would it be worth making the switch if so?

Any input or constructive criticism would be appreciated. I'm sure I will have many more questions as time goes on as I am just a greenhorn when it comes to this. But hey, we all have to start somewhere. Thanks!

1) if you are looking for absolute precision on a vortex scope, good luck!!! Have you ever tested the scope to see if the scope is tracking correctly at 100yards. There is a box to bench target that will assist with this. If you are looking for a budget optic where you can actually use the knobs buy a SWFA SS fixed 10x. I have one that I'm very rough with and works perfect 100% of the time.

2) is the refle bedded? If not I would highly recommend the refle be bedded.

3) are you reloading ammo or buying factory ammo? Factory ammo is not recommended for long range precision shooting. If you chronograph factory ammo you'll begin to see just how bad the extreme spread actually is with factory ammo.

Word from the wise: don't worry about how level the scope is, get the basics correct first.

 

[jsnell]

Sam, I'm in Caldwell. I can help you get your rifle setup so that it hits where you expect it to, and I can help you with your shooting technique. Check out my notebook at http://snellsnotebook.us and send me an email if you are interested.

 

[Idgunner]

Sam, if you're a college student in southern Idaho you could be in Boise, Twin Falls or Pocatello. I'm in Pocatello. If you are also let me know and we will figure out how to get together.

 

[greenejc]

This rifle can be made to shoot. The first thing you should do is stiffen the fore end. The Fore end may be flexing and touching the barrel, which will effect the barrel harmonics. You can use a fiberglass epoxy for that, making sure to just fill the pockets. Also, the stock may be designed to apply a slight upward pressure on the barrel and may be applying that pressure unevenly. Check to see if the barrel is free floated. Just run a dollar bill down the bottom of the barrel from the front of the stock back to the action. If its free floated, check the torque on the mounting bolts for the action. Also, experiment with some of the heavier bullets, such as the Sierra 180 grain bullets. The object is to find a load that exits the barrel at the top of its arc. My Ruger M77 MKII shoots most accurately with either Sierra 180 grain Gamekings, Sierra Pro Hunters, or Speer 180 grain boattail bullets over 55 to 55.5 grains of IMR 4350 using Remington or Winchester brass and Remington 9 1/2 primers. Also, are you shooting on a still day? What groups are you posting at 200 and 300 yards, and remember, ballistic tables are a guideline. Your rifle may have a 'fast' barrel, and be posting a higher muzzle velocity than that listed for your load, which would account for the higher impact at distance. And don't dial if you already have aimpoints inside your scope. Use the aimpoints in the reticle. A check for stock stiffness is to shoot from sandbags and sandbag the stock near the action, then shoot a group, and then sandbag the fore end under the sling attachment and shoot a group. If the two groups impact within 1/2 inch of each other, the stock fore end isn't the problem.

 

[greenejc]

Oh, and a cure for cant is to get a level which can be attached to your scope mount. That's really the only way to ensure that you're not canting somewhat. Also, keep in mind that a 5 mile per hour wind will drift a bullet 2 to 3 inches from point of aim at 200 yards and about 5 to 6 inches at 300 yards, depending on velocity and the bullet's BC.

 

[johnlittletree]

Confidence comes from doing things in the best way as close to perfect as you can get with lots of repetition.

Aiming
Breath Control (https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2018/2/2/basics-of-shooting-breath-control/)
Hold Control (Think about how the rifle wobbles it is not random each person has a kind of pattern)
Trigger Control
Follow Throw (especially when leading moving target)

In a perfect world we would shoot between breaths and heart beats. This is why a lower pulse is a good thing it means the heart is resting between beats longer which means less wobble. If you can make some light weight shooting sticks. Some bamboo about the size of your index finger and an oval rubber exhaust hanger with two holes opposing each other. I am sure if you have seen shooting sticks before you can figure the rest out. Bone on Bone support is nice and so is knowing how to properly adjust and tension a sling for improved stability. Learn how to shoot off hand standing, prone, squatting, kneeling and while sitting Indian Style! Never rest the rifle barrel or the stock directly on something hard like a tree or a rock. If you need to rest the rifle on something hard as a support you rest your body against it to stabilize your limb not the rifle directly. If you are going to rest on a rock put your day bag on the rock and the rifle on your day bag.

Do the square test if you think your scope is not holding zero or the you think the adjustment is off. If you do not have a good way to setup your scope and your eye balling it you have to look quick because your brain will adjust to anything that is off rather quickly the longer you look the less likely your are to see what it wrong alignment wise. Not only that but people have differing abilities to line up two vertical lines with the eye. We test for this in Flight Physicals one line is red and on the wall normally over a door frame and you have to hold a device up to your eye that looks like a paddle with a white vertical line. You line that devices white line up with the red vertical line above the door. You hand it to the Doctor when done. You are not allowed much deviation on that if you want to fly. In normal life no one worries about it and no one tests it either. The point is lining up lines with the human eye is not as easy as you would think and judging plumb is not easy either that is why we have levels and plumb bobs etc....

Lastly the human mind does not know real life from visualized events. Learn to properly use detailed and rich visualization make it as real as you can with as many senses and details as you can. Practice in your mind doing all of the above perfectly over and over again and see the outcome you want see the round hitting the Elk right where you were aiming. P.S. My favorite aiming point on Elk is the lungs and I seldom get a runner. They usually just lie down for me after the shot little flinch and they either lie down for me or they start to walk off and crumple over.

 

[Mark Warner]

I have owned several Ruger Americans and several friends own them from 223. 22-250, 243, 6.5 creed more and 308 Win and 30-06 all will shoot moa with the right ammo. Make sure as the others say that your reticle is straight, shoot a 150 grain bullet or a 165 grain bullet,these will kill anything in NorthAmerica that you care to shoot at and won't beat the snot out of you. Sight your rifle in at 200 yards (not 100) from muzzle to 200 hold dead own, most scopes will be 1.5 inches above the bore. your bullet will drop 6 to 10 or 11 inches. When your 200 yard zero is at it's best shoot at 300 yds and slightly tweek your scope adjustments to make it tighter group. Do not turn you turrets till you tweek at 300, make note how much the bullet has dropped at 300 and then how many clicks you need to make to go between 2 and 300. Ruger American triggers can easily be fixed to break safely to 1 3/4 to 1 1/2 pounds by some one that is competent in your area. Hornady Ballistics has a Super web page that you can plug in you data, bullet weight, velocity, ballistic coefficient, sight in range(remember 200 yards) scope height, and put the max range at 500 or 1000 then hit calculate and it will give you everything you need to know, from the muzzle to 1000 yards. You will be amazed at what you can learn and you can print off the info sheet. Trust me Ruger Americans will shoot as do the other rifles from Savage with out breaking the bank. Last thing use a good rest and shoot every chance you get. If you have problems you are free to contact me. I only have 52 years experience in shooting and reloading my own ammo. Good luck !

 

[greenejc]

John, you're dead on on all you said. I assumed that he knew all that, but maybe he doesn't. Its good advice and a good review, anyway. I hunted elk in Colorado this Fall, and didn't even see one, but I like to shoot just behind the front leg and try to hit the nerve center in the forward chest. This also gets the lungs. I use a .35 Whelen with a Sierra 225 grain Gameking. My average velocity for this load is 2725 fps and it hits like a sledge hammer. The bullet drop matches my Shepherd P2 scope to at least 900 yards at 7,000 feet of altitude.

 

[greenejc]

The gentleman that did the calculations for MOA adjustment is probably right. If you made the error he mentioned, you would be high at 200 yards about the amount you listed, and the same at 300 yards. Combined with wind drift, that might explain what you are experiencing. As to group size, try varying your charge weight by .5 grains up or down, and see if the group size changes. Also, you might try the Sierra Pro Hunter or Gameking bullet in 180 grain. It may stabilize a little better in your rifle. It will shoot flat enough for 500 yard shots, and still retain enough energy and velocity (both bullets) for good penetration and expansion at that distance.

 

[greenejc]

The vitals of a deer roughly cover a 10 inch circle. The rifle and scope you have purchased should be perfectly capable of shooting a 10 inch target at 500 yards. I suspect the problem is that you made a simple mistake dialing in your scope corrections. I ran the ballistic solution you described:



My calculations say that at

V =2600 fps
BC = .404
Sea Level
Level flight

Range 200: Drop is -3.6 in, Correction is 3.6 inches/200 yards = 1.8 inches/100 yards, so dial 1.75 moa on your scope

Range 300: Drop is -13.8 in, Correction is 13.8 inches/300 yards = 4.5 inches/100 yards, so dial 4.5 moa on your scope

I would hazard a guess that you dialed in 3.6 at 200 instead of 1.75 causing you to shoot high. And I would guess you dialed 13.8 instead of 4.5, and that explains why you shot high at 300 as well.

You probably made the same mistake on your windage corrections.

Don't spend any more money. Go out and have fun with your rifle!

Didn't think of that. I bet you're right.

 

[basinman]

Hello all.


I am new to the forum and just getting into the idea of long range hunting. College guy on a budget. I am from Southern Idaho so I am wanting to be confident taking 300-500 yard shots for desert elk/mule deer. Most of my deer hunting so far has been in the 100-200 yard range so I haven't had any issues so now I am just wanting to extend my range.


I've slowly been building up my set up with a Ruger American 30-06. I was able to snag a 4x16-44 MOA Vortex Diamondback Tactical before they went on backorder. The hollow, light stock in the -06 was beating the crap out of me so I have added weight to the stock which took care of that problem. I also added a bipod. With a 165gr Sierra Game-Kings I shoot 1-1.5 inch groups with some under 1 inch on rare occasions, usually depending on how I'm doing on the particular day. So I have some questions about a few different things. I shoot good groups at 100, 200, 300 yards. Precision (acceptable for hunting imo) is fine, however accuracy is not. Know knowing theoretically at 200 yards my SGK drops 3.8 inches and at 300 yards it drops 13.8, I dial my elevation accordingly with a 100 yard zero as well as adjust parallax at each range so the reticle doesn't move on the target. This is with little wind. With each 100 yard increment my bullets impact farther to the right and up of my aiming point. About 2-3 inches at 200 yards and about 8-10 at 300.


So..

1. My scope was mounted and torqued level at the local gun shop. I have double checked it, so the scope to my knowledge is level so there shouldn't be cant. I do my best to make sure the scope is level at all times. However, does anyone have experience with the anti-cant bubble levels? Are they installed easy?
2. I have worked hard at developing better trigger control as that was an issue for me at one point. I have the trigger set as low as possible, 3lbs. Since I shoot good groups at 100 dead-on I have a hard time thinking its me pulling.
3. I have a known astigmatism in my right eye and I shoot right handed with a righty set up. Probably not ideal. I found this out after I purchased the rifle as I have always shot every gun right handed. Does anyone have experience with this? Could it have something to do with my POI being off to the right at longer ranges? Would it be worth making the switch if so?

Any input or constructive criticism would be appreciated. I'm sure I will have many more questions as time goes on as I am just a greenhorn when it comes to this. But hey, we all have to start somewhere. Thanks!

Definitely get a bubble level. Most are easy to install.

 

[basinman]

Not to muddy the waters even more, but I noticed you said you added a bi-pod to that set up. That factory stock has to be flexing like crazy and I can't imagine trying to "load" the bi-pod correctly considering that.....

I agree. The Ruger American stocks usually touch near the end of the forearm on one side and have to be relieved a little more to insure it doesn't touch, especially when using a bi-pod.

 

[basinman]

I have a buddy with a 7 REm mag Ruger American that's box stock and he can hang with my customs builds out to about 600 yards. Maybe he just got lucky and got a shooter. The rest of the comments seem like good ideas but have you considered trying different ammo? Just because it shoots well at 100 and 200 doesn't mean that it will stay consistent as you get out there. Just a thought.

I have a Ruger American Predator in 6.5 CM and the factory stock was touching the left side of the barrel along the front of the forearm. I relieved this and now it shoots great out to 1000 yards.