Gwine
Well-Known Member
Looks like different bolt knob also?
Anneal or not ?
- Thread starter J E Custom
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I'm not going to argue. If you only see two rifles the entire time that is fine. There are clearly three rifles being shot in this video. Others see this as well.
codyadams
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nksmfamjp
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I really don't want to argue, but would help me understand if you could share the time stamp where rifle #3 appears. I have looked at it a few times and just need to understand it the way you do....
nksmfamjp
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Aren't both tests run on the black 30 PPC?
codyadams
Well-Known Member
Na, if ya check the video again, he does the first unannealed one with the red one, with the camera view behind him. Then the annealed one, with the side view black one. Two 10 shot strings with both rifles, same piece of brass for each rifle.
codyadams
Well-Known Member
It could be a "similar" test, could both be same make/type barrel chambered with same reamer and such, but when they are splitting hairs like this, the only 100% test would be with the same rifle, and personally, for total scientific reasons, would do some other things as well, such as double blind testing, alternating annealed and unannealed every shot, as there might be minor changes in the barrel from the first set of 20 and the second set of 20, and possibly some other things. Getting 100% accurate readable data from a test that requires a human element of skill input, especially if said human has something to gain from one result over another, or even a personal opinion or preference, is extremely challenging. Even if the person is a stand up, honest and moral individual, subconscious actions may even slightly alter the results.
Not saying one way or another on annealing, just that conducting a test such as this and getting rock solid results is extremely challenging, though possible.
Not saying one way or another on annealing, just that conducting a test such as this and getting rock solid results is extremely challenging, though possible.
LongBomber
Well-Known Member
Rifle issue aside, I would like to have seen the es/sd data for the shot strings.
MagnumManiac
Well-Known Member
Regardless of how many rifles were used...I knew there was a reason that I annealed my comp brass every time it was loaded.
You can feel the difference when seating between annealed and non annealed brass.
I did find it interesting how haphazard he is in all the procedures while sizing/brushing/priming. It just showed me how anal I am!! LOL.
Cheers.
You can feel the difference when seating between annealed and non annealed brass.
I did find it interesting how haphazard he is in all the procedures while sizing/brushing/priming. It just showed me how anal I am!! LOL.
Cheers.
MNbogboy
Well-Known Member
Thanks JE for the video....even though the results are scewed the premise is annealing each cycle is good for accuracy.
Having started the every cycle regimine about a year ago, i am seeing the results on my targets with modest equipment & rifles. Annealing is one thing everyone can afford and results are probably more pronounced for those of us with lesser equipment & money.
Annealing every cycle can provide;
1. more consistent seating.
2. ease of sizing fl or neck.
3. more consistent shoulder/fl bumping
4. increased case life.
Drawbacks; 4-8 seconds per case prep time....if you shoot 3000 rounds/year that equates to about 6 minutes a week annealing time.....
Having started the every cycle regimine about a year ago, i am seeing the results on my targets with modest equipment & rifles. Annealing is one thing everyone can afford and results are probably more pronounced for those of us with lesser equipment & money.
Annealing every cycle can provide;
1. more consistent seating.
2. ease of sizing fl or neck.
3. more consistent shoulder/fl bumping
4. increased case life.
Drawbacks; 4-8 seconds per case prep time....if you shoot 3000 rounds/year that equates to about 6 minutes a week annealing time.....
For what it is worth, I was fortunate enough to be on the team hired to do testing for the AMP folks. We did comprehensive and extensive testing with several different platforms and shooters. basically, we started shooting at 1000yds, recording velocity and accuracy (annealed and un-annealed). Cartridges were: 6mm (6 Shankle, and 6bra), 6.5 Creedmoor, 7mm shortmag, and 338 Lapua Mag. We also did a failure test in .308. We recorded a tremendous amount of data over a two month period (some of us continued for another two months). I think there are still some videos, and data posted on their website. It is a bit tedious to go through, but the bottom line is: There is a difference in consistency, in both velocity and accuracy. The failure test was telling, in that we had case separation at a fairly low round count on the un-annealed brass. Now, does this mean you should go out and spend $1300.00 to get an AMP machine? That is up to you. I was a fan before the testing, and still am. The consistency from round to round is there. Just like most other aspects of reloading, it is hard to beat a consistently performing primer (if you can find one), case, and powder lot. Annealing, is a major factor in consistent neck tension, which can greatly affect accuracy, and to some extent velocity.
My $0.02.
My $0.02.
J E Custom
Well-Known Member
Well even though the Video was flawed, It has done lots for the subject and generated lots of good conversations/post. I started annealing many years ago for one reason"Case life" over time I became aware of many other benefits to annealing and continue to find out more about other benefits.
This is a tough experienced crowd, and we all can learn from these post no matter how old or experienced we are.
If it did anything, I hope it encourages everyone the be diligent and keep good records on your loading process so better more consistent ammo can be loaded. Apparently, there are quite a few anal members.
J E CUSTOM
This is a tough experienced crowd, and we all can learn from these post no matter how old or experienced we are.
If it did anything, I hope it encourages everyone the be diligent and keep good records on your loading process so better more consistent ammo can be loaded. Apparently, there are quite a few anal members.
J E CUSTOM
Rick Richard
Well-Known Member
I have no mountain of data, but my ability to maintain consistent groups is evidence enough for me to continue my every once shot routine of annealing.
