American made scopes and rifles

[Pdvdh]

America and American workers are in a world market and economy period. That is a fact and it's not going away, not ever. For America and American workers to survive and even prosper, they must compete.

Stated slightly differently, for American manufactured products to survive and prosper, they also must compete in the world market and economy with the foreign manufactured products.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Ford and leupold get my business btw. although i do own nightforce.

FWIW, to the best of my knowledge, Leupold can no longer claim their scopes as "Made in the USA" because not all of their components are made in the USA, something like Nightforce and a lot of other optics makers.

Leupold uses foreign sourced components for some parts of Golden Ring products, primarily lenses. This is because at this time, there is no American manufacturer that can supply the quantity of high quality lenses that Leupold needs for its annual Golden Ring Optics production.

America's Optics Authority | Leupold Optics

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Feenix without question, 100% American Made.

I guess you're going with iron sights then?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Stated slightly differently, for American manufactured products to survive and prosper, they also must compete in the world market and economy with the foreign manufactured products.

Yup, I'll go along with that.

 

[Chandalar]

I guess you're going with iron sights then?

I went with a US Optics made scope, and a Surgeon made rifle.

I completly agree with you though, that Leupold and many others have off-shored many of their product lines to Asia to increase their corperate profits. Who knows may be many if not all of the goods and services in states like Alaska and Montana can and will be off shored for cheap labor, and higher corperate profits as well, its all about global competition, good or bad..... The one thing that will increase will be unemployment.

 

[Canadian Bushman]

How do i unsubscribe, im getting dizzy

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I went with a US Optics made scope, and a Surgeon made rifle.

I completly agree with you though, that Leupold and many others have off-shored many of their product lines to Asia to increase their corperate profits. Who knows may be many if not all of the goods and services in states like Alaska and Montana can and will be off shored for cheap labor, and higher corperate profits as well, its all about global competition, good or bad..... The one thing that will increase will be unemployment.

Just so you know, US Optics is not 100% American made. Enough is that they are allowed to say "Made in the USA". Definitely a fine optic.

There are some things that can not be outsourced overseas. Hopefully we can become more globally competitive in manufacturing but it will require a change of mindset and a be political change. "Reinvesting" in America is a good thing, but it only treats the symptoms and not the problem. If the problem is not rooted out, then the symptoms will only increase. Wish I could say I'm optimistic, but I'm not. In the mean time, I'll just keep plugging away the best I can.

 

[FEENIX]

At this time, there's NO cradle-to-grave ALL US made (components and processes) scopes even when it says "Made in the US" ... PERIOD.

 

[Chandalar]

Just so you know, US Optics is not 100% American made. Enough is that they are allowed to say "Made in the USA". Definitely a fine optic.

There are some things that can not be outsourced overseas. Hopefully we can become more globally competitive in manufacturing but it will require a change of mindset and a be political change. "Reinvesting" in America is a good thing, but it only treats the symptoms and not the problem. If the problem is not rooted out, then the symptoms will only increase. Wish I could say I'm optimistic, but I'm not. In the mean time, I'll just keep plugging away the best I can.

Very good points and I agree totaly.

 

[joejo]

first i am not trying to fight with you, we all have our opinions, but i just want to respond to a few comments.

Now I will share an anecdotal union story with you. Back when I lived in SW PA, a union steel worker bragged to me about how he got over on the steel company. He got drunk on a Sat night and rolled into work on Sunday morning, making double time for "working" on a Sunday. He told me he found a hole somewhere in the plant and spent the whole shift sleeping off his hangover... making double time. This was the prevalent attitude in those unions. Now, I don't know where you are an Iron Worker, but one of my best friends is an Iron Worker living in Eastern PA and he is not very happy with his situation, but has no power to anything about it. .

i suppose there has never been a non-union worker who has done this?
i am an ironworker in pittsburgh, i have been "black listed" but it dosen't matter. we can solicit ourt own work, so technically i don't need the union hall to get me work, just my reputation. those who can preform get the work period. i have seen many guys starve out and quit or move on. building trades, like i stated earlier, has no immunity. if you can't work you can't stay. we typically work with hard dollar bids, and if we don't make the contractor money, he will not bid work with us again.

As you probably know, to get opportunities in the union, you have to "play ball"...go along to get along, and my friend was never very good at that. I am very familiar with the unions as I know many who were/are members, including friends and relatives..

i was born to go against the grain. it hasen't affected my ability to get enough credit hours, nor many thousands of other union tradesmen.

Sorry, but the unions are full of corruption and they protect and promote slackers and punish motivated hard workers. That is a fact. .

this is completely wrong. i have never seen a good hard working guy in my buisiness held back. our work is word of mouth. if someone is good he will be on my hire list. why would i want dead weight on my jobs. i want to look good so i surround myself with good workers.

If I as a contractor, bid on a job that is receiving federal dollars, I have to factor in Davis-Bacon and pay my employees arcordingly which is about 20-50% higher than the going rate for a particular skill level. Why? To protect the union workers, that's why. That is not free enterprise and competition, that is socialism.

.

i bet your employees would like that. sure would feel good to be able to afford something.
apparently your employees make next to nothing, just a few bucks above min wage.
you can always not bid those jobs.

 

[Pdvdh]

How do i unsubscribe, I'm getting dizzy.

Pull that electrical plug out of the wall if a PC, or pull the battery out of the handheld unit if a smartphone or tablet.

 

[FEENIX]

very good points and i agree totaly.

Attaboy!

 

[Chandalar]

Attaboy!

feenix, Thanks for sharing so much in this thread, I can't speak for everyone, but the click and paste cartoons that you contentiously shared brought some of best personal and creative thought to game, and the best out of me. I've gota use one of your stand by's if I might, at-a-boy. Wow, now I've got it.

Everyone else, a big thanks to everyone that shared their thoughts and opinions. Be proud of your country and be proud to support, Made in USA.

I do hope you will share the videos with your friends.
All the best, Caribou season will be here in 2 months, time for skiing and caribou!!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

first i am not trying to fight with you, we all have our opinions, but i just want to respond to a few comments.

Glad to hear your side.

i suppose there has never been a non-union worker who has done this?

The story I mentioned was the most egregious example I could remember but it reflected the overall attitude of a lot of the steel workers and miners (mostly steel workers) that I came in contact with. Like I said before, not all the guys were like this, but there was an attitude with a lot of guys of getting paid for doing little to nothing. A worker in a non-union shop or mill would have been sent home without pay or fired. My point being that the union protected such behaivior and that is a fact. It was almost impossible to fire a union worker.

i am an ironworker in pittsburgh, i have been "black listed" but it dosen't matter. we can solicit ourt own work, so technically i don't need the union hall to get me work, just my reputation. those who can preform get the work period. i have seen many guys starve out and quit or move on. building trades, like i stated earlier, has no immunity. if you can't work you can't stay. we typically work with hard dollar bids, and if we don't make the contractor money, he will not bid work with us again.

i was born to go against the grain. it hasen't affected my ability to get enough credit hours, nor many thousands of other union tradesmen.

So it sounds to me like there was some politics going on your union hall that you did not go along with and you were black listed for it although you did good enough work to find jobs based on your rep. This is part of what I'm talking about. I don't know much about the iron workers as most of my experience and contact is with steel workers and miners and some masons and teamsters. My iron worker friend was/is also able to get work but at the same time he felt like he was not getting a fair deal. He had his differences with his union hall and they were doing whatever to punish or bring him in line. Don't know the details but last I talked with him he was considering quitting and finding something else to do but so far hasn't to the best of my knowledge.

this is completely wrong. i have never seen a good hard working guy in my buisiness held back. our work is word of mouth. if someone is good he will be on my hire list. why would i want dead weight on my jobs. i want to look good so i surround myself with good workers.

I don't know what your shop was like but like I said, my friend felt like he was being held back to some degree and not getting the opportunities he thought he was entitled to. Other guys I've talked in the trades have told me flat out that they were not to work too hard or accomplish too much. You lay "X" number of brick and block a day and no more. A self employed mason would lay 12" block by himself and union masons used 2 bricklayers to lay 12" block, according to the rules. I was looking at getting on with a mason's union when I was young but after talking with a few laborers and mason's, I decided it wasn't for me. IMO they had an anti-motivation attitude and work environment and exercised much too much personal/job site control over an individual.

i bet your employees would like that. sure would feel good to be able to afford something.
apparently your employees make next to nothing, just a few bucks above min wage.
you can always not bid those jobs.

You bet they would like that. They would like getting $100/hour even better. I paid my employees the going rate for their skills in this area period, which was well above minimum wage. If a job went well I gave them bonuses. I also gave them raises based on their productivity, and I fired a few based on same. Reward for good work and motivation to do good work. And no, I did not bid on many of those jobs and only got one. I did not care to put up with the bureaucratic BS. Not worth it.

The bottom line is that the cost of the project is going to go up under Davis-Bacon with no increase in quality. So that cost is passed along to the client who then passes it along to his clients and customers. That is not competition. That is government meddling in the free market. It is a socialist mindset and it is exactly what makes America less competitive in the global market, and it is exactly what drives jobs outside our borders along with all the other government meddling that the unions support. Both need to be put in check.

Be safe and don't fall off any sky scrapers.