American made scopes and rifles

[lloydsmale]

so the economy was tanked and you couldnt make money so now you buy foreign made stuff so others share your fate. Keep in mind how you felt when you were trying to put food on the table that your kids might be in the same boat too shortly. Unions didnt create this mess. the goverment did and the liberal people with the same me me attitude that justifys buying something made in japan or china because it cost 4 cents less. Same ones that elected obama and reelected him because they thought that he would allow them to have a bit more money. Same went for clinton. Look what he did and even christian america turned there back to it and reelected him. thats the prooblem here and the problem with this whole country. All anyone anymore seems to worry about is how fat there wallet is. they could care less how there neighbor gets by or even how there own grandkids will. YUP keep buying foreign stuff. Stand back and watch your country fall apart. Dont worry im sure you can convince yourself it wasnt anything to do with you.

 

[FEENIX]

Who is to blame?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

so the economy was tanked and you couldnt make money so now you buy foreign made stuff so others share your fate. Keep in mind how you felt when you were trying to put food on the table that your kids might be in the same boat too shortly. Unions didnt create this mess. the goverment did and the liberal people with the same me me attitude that justifys buying something made in japan or china because it cost 4 cents less. Same ones that elected obama and reelected him because they thought that he would allow them to have a bit more money. Same went for clinton. Look what he did and even christian america turned there back to it and reelected him. thats the prooblem here and the problem with this whole country. All anyone anymore seems to worry about is how fat there wallet is. they could care less how there neighbor gets by or even how there own grandkids will. YUP keep buying foreign stuff. Stand back and watch your country fall apart. Dont worry im sure you can convince yourself it wasnt anything to do with you.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention... let's start with what "stuff" buy. I buy QUALITY products that FUNCTION the way I NEED and WANT it to function, be it tools and equipment for my work or toys for my playing, which includes LR scopes. Right now I own 2 Ford pickups and an Expedition and a Subaru Outback. I have nio clue what percentage of those Fords were made here in the US and you probably don't either and you probably don't have a clue how much of your vehicles were made in the US. There is no such thing as a car made completely in the USA. It's a myth. My Subaru is the only "foreign" made vehicle I have ever owned and I have owned a bunch. It was a good vehicle and it served me well and is ready to be sold for parts. I got the Expedition to replace it. Back when I was a family man I bought a Chrysler mini van and it was a piece of junk. Under engineered tranny and brakes along with a list of other problems. I will never buy another Chrysler product because of that experience.

The power tools I buy are mostly foreign made because that is all that is available.... are you listening? They are all good quality and function the way I need then to function. There is probably not a contractor in this country who does not have a truck or tool box full of foreign made tools. Do you have any Makita, DeWalt, Milwaukee or Bosch power tools?

I also own an Indiana made cargo trailer, like Outlaw, to store and haul my tools and equipment. I also had a local welding shop fab a custom flat bed trailer for me for my heavier equipment. Most of the equipment is custom made jacks (used to erect grain storage bins) that I also had them make for me. Not sure where the steel for the trailer and jacks come from but don't have a choice one way or another. My power trowels (for concrete work) are made in Idaho and are powered by Honda engines as are most of my motorized tools and equipment. Do you own anything with a honda motor? Lawn mower? Power washer? So as you can see that most of my $$$ goes to US and home made products according to the quality, function and availability. In many cases, there is simply no choice. 10 years ago my Carharts were made in the US... now they are made in China... nothing I can do about it.

The biggest part of my business is erecting grain storage bins which are US made with US manufactured steel.... no thanks to the unions.

As far as the unions go, they WERE a big factor in the collapse of the US steel industry back in the early 80's period. They were also a big factor in the failure and subsequent bailout of the US auto makers. And don't even get me started on the bailouts. If I fail, Uncle Sam won't be bailing my ***** out. The unions are full of corruption and are a hindrance to American quality and productivity. They reward laziness and poor work ethic and they punish good work ethic and motivation. I know this for a fact.

The govt is a whole other issue. It is out of control and needs to be reigned in. You can bet your ***** that I never voted for Obama or any other liberal socialist Democrat and while you're at it you can also bet your ***** that the socialist unions backed them all and helped vote them into office. So they go hand in hand. Wake up and smell the roses.

So bottom line is, there usually really isn't a whole lot of choice. It IS a world economy and market and major manufacturers do what they need to do to stay competitive.

Now suppose you tell us what scopes you are using on your rifles and where they were made.

 

[FEENIX]

Mark,

Relax my friend it's not worth the frustration.

"A man must be big enough to admit his mistakes, smart enough to profit from them, and strong enough to correct them" - John C. Maxwell.

Cheers!

Ed

 

[Pdvdh]

YUP keep buying foreign stuff. Stand back and watch your country fall apart. Dont worry im sure you can convince yourself it wasnt anything to do with you.

It's a wee bit more complicated than that. But if this is what makes you feel like you've contributed your part to a better American society, economy, and work force, have at it.

 

[joejo]

montanarifleman, before you go and push blame on unions for the condition of this country educate yourself on unions a bit first. you only cited 2 unions. yes, those two, they hurt themselves, however there are thousands of other labor unions that benefit their members greatly. unions weren't the only reason for the steel industry collapse in pittsburgh and johnstown either. (yes i am from the area) DEP had alot to do with it too. Did you know that you couldn't build a blast furnace in the us if you wanted to. us steel, i am sure would love to build new furnaces and rolling mills, and coke ovens but its not their union wages holding them back.

i am so tired of hearing the "protect the lazy" and "corrupt" comments when a union statement comes up. do you think for a second that any buisness isn't corrupt to some level?

i for one am a meber of a building trades union. there is absolutely no protection for me if i am lazy or can't preform. i am subject to firing anytime.

what my union does do for me is negotiate a favorable working wage and benefit package so that some day i may be able to retire before age 65. not that any ironworker could preform his duties at that age anyway.

i just think alot of folks hear democrat or union and assume the worst.
end rant, i could go on but i won't.

Ford and leupold get my business btw. although i do own nightforce. oh and my work boots are union made in wisconsin.

 

[Chandalar]

I spoke to a friend of mine the other day about the US economy/jobs/and American made. I told him about this thread and that there have been many that have given opinions on the concern.

He told me about this gal, Cathrine Austin Fitts, that use to work for Bush Sr. and was now a money manager and lives in Tennessee. He said she sheds a lot of light on why so may things are now made in China. He said she goes on to tell when and why big investment has moved out of the US along with its jobs. Here's the link. James Gold Smith puts it all in to perspective!



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJFyW73sQ0U]Solari Stories - Moving the Money - YouTube[/ame]

Here's the other ones that he said were worth a watch.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzVIZU3gmXA]Catherine Austin Fitts : Economy and Culture, imagining the reinvention of everything - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBiTnBwSWc]Chris Martenson's presentation at the Gold & Silver Meeting in Madrid - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74hXZTBXAIk]The Money Masters - Full Film (1996). - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Chandalar]

Some good history about keeping people employed

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PQrz8F0dBI]1. A prophetic interview with Sir James Goldsmith in 1994 Pt1 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[FEENIX]

^^^ Now that you have all these information, the decision is ................... ^^^

 

[lloydsmale]

amen to that. Big business and the goverment did a 100 times more to ruin the auto makers then the unions did. Unions were nothing but a scapegoat. Funny thing is in this country it seems that people get angry when an employe making something they want gets a FAIR salery. But sure do think there worth that FAIR salery when there providing the service they provide. Funny thing with the automakers is back in the 60s if you factored in cost of living changes the auto workers acutally made more then they do now and all of the major auto makers were making money. Goverment stuck its nose into it with mandatory gas milage and mandatory polution standards and got rid of import taxes. Then look at the upper management of the auto workers. They acutally make much more factoring in inflation, But those dammed union guys plotted to ruin the country. How dare they want a wage so high they can afford to buy one of those cars they make.

montanarifleman, before you go and push blame on unions for the condition of this country educate yourself on unions a bit first. you only cited 2 unions. yes, those two, they hurt themselves, however there are thousands of other labor unions that benefit their members greatly. unions weren't the only reason for the steel industry collapse in pittsburgh and johnstown either. (yes i am from the area) DEP had alot to do with it too. Did you know that you couldn't build a blast furnace in the us if you wanted to. us steel, i am sure would love to build new furnaces and rolling mills, and coke ovens but its not their union wages holding them back.

i am so tired of hearing the "protect the lazy" and "corrupt" comments when a union statement comes up. do you think for a second that any buisness isn't corrupt to some level?

i for one am a meber of a building trades union. there is absolutely no protection for me if i am lazy or can't preform. i am subject to firing anytime.

what my union does do for me is negotiate a favorable working wage and benefit package so that some day i may be able to retire before age 65. not that any ironworker could preform his duties at that age anyway.

i just think alot of folks hear democrat or union and assume the worst.
end rant, i could go on but i won't.

Ford and leupold get my business btw. although i do own nightforce. oh and my work boots are union made in wisconsin.

 

[Outlaw6.0]

amen to that. Big business and the goverment did a 100 times more to ruin the auto makers then the unions did. Unions were nothing but a scapegoat. Funny thing is in this country it seems that people get angry when an employe making something they want gets a FAIR salery. But sure do think there worth that FAIR salery when there providing the service they provide. Funny thing with the automakers is back in the 60s if you factored in cost of living changes the auto workers acutally made more then they do now and all of the major auto makers were making money. Goverment stuck its nose into it with mandatory gas milage and mandatory polution standards and got rid of import taxes. Then look at the upper management of the auto workers. They acutally make much more factoring in inflation, But those dammed union guys plotted to ruin the country. How dare they want a wage so high they can afford to buy one of those cars they make.

I have some agree & some disagreement on the unions opinions. Are they solely to blame? No, not hardly. Did they have a hand in it? You bet your keister they did. There was a LOT of discussion about free market enterprise & how it is "how" the world works; right?

When you demand a wage 10 or 20 or 30% higher than the guys across the border are asking to perform the same job; what did you expect to happen?

Lets rap a little more about the auto unions. I have an uncle that started in a GM foundry as a union employee. He was guaranteed retirement eligibility after 18yrs service, 18yrs! meaning he was fully able to retire just short of his 40th B-day. Sounds great doesn't it? Except there is no way in hell he could have payed in enough to the pension system to cover 30 or 40yrs of retirement; need a calculator? **** business model, period. With that type of mismanagement, I wonder why they went broke? But never fear, Obama-man is here!

How about BNSF? You HAVE to be a union member to even be eligible for hire. But hey, I believe they received a 4% COLA last year as their health ins went up something akin to +6%. Boy, that was worth it.


Now, Big Gub'ment, EPA, FDA, IRS etc. FULLY have their hands in cookie jars they were never meant to be involved in, FACT. They ARE making a full hearted attempt to flat-line this economy & as of right now, they are succeeding. I won't even get started on the Dept of Edu & the full face palm of Common Core. Over regulation is a poison for sure however, we are still capable of being a self sustained country, IF we can concentrate on what we ourselves can achieve instead of demanding the same fruits of labor our neighbor has while not performing at the same level. We are the richest "poor" country in the world by ALL measures, big screen TV's, refrigerators, washing machines, Smart phones, hot tubs, computer, wages & Living space per individual. Yet, we can only balk for more of what someone else has earned; we are at a point of the EBT recipient & the tax payer standing side by side in the check out line at Best Buy & i'm tired of hearing about how bad we have it.

We as a society, as free men, are entitled only two things in life, period. The opportunity to make a better life for yourself & fresh air, that's it. If you don't better yourself to earn that wage to purchase the car you make, tough chit. You & you alone are accountable for the things you do or do not achieve in this life. Fair salary is a highly subjective term, just ask the next 10 people you talk to. Performance dictates salary, nothing else.


t

 

[MontanaRifleman]

montanarifleman, before you go and push blame on unions for the condition of this country educate yourself on unions a bit first. you only cited 2 unions. yes, those two, they hurt themselves, however there are thousands of other labor unions that benefit their members greatly. unions weren't the only reason for the steel industry collapse in pittsburgh and johnstown either. (yes i am from the area) DEP had alot to do with it too. Did you know that you couldn't build a blast furnace in the us if you wanted to. us steel, i am sure would love to build new furnaces and rolling mills, and coke ovens but its not their union wages holding them back.

i am so tired of hearing the "protect the lazy" and "corrupt" comments when a union statement comes up. do you think for a second that any buisness isn't corrupt to some level?

i for one am a meber of a building trades union. there is absolutely no protection for me if i am lazy or can't preform. i am subject to firing anytime.

what my union does do for me is negotiate a favorable working wage and benefit package so that some day i may be able to retire before age 65. not that any ironworker could preform his duties at that age anyway.

i just think alot of folks hear democrat or union and assume the worst.
end rant, i could go on but i won't.

Ford and leupold get my business btw. although i do own nightforce. oh and my work boots are union made in wisconsin.

Joejo, maybe you should go back and re-read my posts. I never said the unions were solely responsible for current economic conditions. They are only a part, but a big part of the problem Right now, the Fed govt is the biggest part and the biggest part of the Fed govt problem is the liberal socialists Democrats... not too happy with the Republicans either, but the liberal socialists are Democrats, period. And the unions, which are socialist in nature, support the liberal socialist Democrats period. That is a fact sir. Obama and most of the rest of them would not have got elected without their support and that is fact.

Now I will share an anecdotal union story with you. Back when I lived in SW PA, a union steel worker bragged to me about how he got over on the steel company. He got drunk on a Sat night and rolled into work on Sunday morning, making double time for "working" on a Sunday. He told me he found a hole somewhere in the plant and spent the whole shift sleeping off his hangover... making double time. He actually bragged about this to me... me being someone who was busting his *** working self employed trying to make some money the old fashion way. I was not at all impressed. About one year later he no longer had a job....because the mill closed down. Go figure. This is just one story and this was the general mentality of the union steel workers and coal miners. Not all the guys were slackers, but the slackers were protected and if a guy showed any motivation he was quickly put in his place by his peers and the union bosses. That would make the rest of them look bad. This was the prevalent attitude in those unions. Now, I don't know where you are an Iron Worker, but one of my best friends is an Iron Worker living in Eastern PA and he is not very happy with his situation, but has no power to anything about it. As you probably know, to get opportunities in the union, you have to "play ball"...go along to get along, and my friend was never very good at that. I am very familiar with the unions as I know many who were/are members, including friends and relatives.

Sorry, but the unions are full of corruption and they protect and promote slackers and punish motivated hard workers. That is a fact. Too bad, because at one time they were very much needed and performed a critiacle role in getting fair wages and good and safe working conditions. Now they are out of control. They are socialist protectionists. They are the complete opposite to free enterprise and competition.

If I as a contractor, bid on a job that is receiving federal dollars, I have to factor in Davis-Bacon and pay my employees arcordingly which is about 20-50% higher than the going rate for a particular skill level. Why? To protect the union workers, that's why. That is not free enterprise and competition, that is socialism.

America and American workers are in a world market and economy period. That is a fact and it's not going away, not ever. For America and American workers to survive and even prosper, they must compete. The biggest threat to that is socialism and socialism thrives in the government and the union hall and they are both in bed together.

Now I'll take FEENIX's advice and bow out.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

I have some agree & some disagreement on the unions opinions. Are they solely to blame? No, not hardly. Did they have a hand in it? You bet your keister they did. There was a LOT of discussion about free market enterprise & how it is "how" the world works; right?

When you demand a wage 10 or 20 or 30% higher than the guys across the border are asking to perform the same job; what did you expect to happen?

Lets rap a little more about the auto unions. I have an uncle that started in a GM foundry as a union employee. He was guaranteed retirement eligibility after 18yrs service, 18yrs! meaning he was fully able to retire just short of his 40th B-day. Sounds great doesn't it? Except there is no way in hell he could have payed in enough to the pension system to cover 30 or 40yrs of retirement; need a calculator? **** business model, period. With that type of mismanagement, I wonder why they went broke? But never fear, Obama-man is here!

How about BNSF? You HAVE to be a union member to even be eligible for hire. But hey, I believe they received a 4% COLA last year as their health ins went up something akin to +6%. Boy, that was worth it.


Now, Big Gub'ment, EPA, FDA, IRS etc. FULLY have their hands in cookie jars they were never meant to be involved in, FACT. They ARE making a full hearted attempt to flat-line this economy & as of right now, they are succeeding. I won't even get started on the Dept of Edu & the full face palm of Common Core. Over regulation is a poison for sure however, we are still capable of being a self sustained country, IF we can concentrate on what we ourselves can achieve instead of demanding the same fruits of labor our neighbor has while not performing at the same level. We are the richest "poor" country in the world by ALL measures, big screen TV's, refrigerators, washing machines, Smart phones, hot tubs, computer, wages & Living space per individual. Yet, we can only balk for more of what someone else has earned; we are at a point of the EBT recipient & the tax payer standing side by side in the check out line at Best Buy & i'm tired of hearing about how bad we have it.

We as a society, as free men, are entitled only two things in life, period. The opportunity to make a better life for yourself & fresh air, that's it. If you don't better yourself to earn that wage to purchase the car you make, tough chit. You & you alone are accountable for the things you do or do not achieve in this life. Fair salary is a highly subjective term, just ask the next 10 people you talk to. Performance dictates salary, nothing else.


t

Amen

 

[Chandalar]

^^^ Now that you have all these information, the decision is ................... ^^^

Feenix without question, 100% American Made. I have had the opertunity to live in may amazing areas throughout the US... TN, VA, CO, AK, I grew up in a small town in Virginia. I began working as a welder before I finished high school, then became a machinist/toolmaker. I'm communicating these things because I'm now in my mid 40s and thinking about my future and the future of the next welder/carpenter/machinist/clothing maker.... if we do not begin, again to reinvest individually in American Made through our daily purchases to those that are using raw materials from the US, to make US Made products, we will ensure that we guarantee the rest of the US to look like Detroit, and at the same time we will be ensuring that China and all of the off shored corperations with the help of cheap labor continue to do very well