Accuracy issues - who or what is to blame?

[6pakzak]

While shooting my friends 40 compact Glock I noticed myself developing a flinch, my friends at club say you should practice with the loads you carry for self defense but I have read the opposite, believe it was in guns and ammo, they say you should practice with smaller loads so you don't develop a flinch and if you ever had to use your gun for self defense u will not even feel the recoil cause of your elevated excitement, this of course was for pistols and I could see shooting your actual self defense rounds some just to make sure poi is the same.

 

[GSPRunner]

While shooting my friends 40 compact Glock I noticed myself developing a flinch, my friends at club say you should practice with the loads you carry for self defense but I have read the opposite, believe it was in guns and ammo, they say you should practice with smaller loads so you don't develop a flinch and if you ever had to use your gun for self defense u will not even feel the recoil cause of your elevated excitement, this of course was for pistols and I could see shooting your actual self defense rounds some just to make sure poi is the same.

My opinion is that it is easier to learn shooting fundamentals with low recoil rounds. I didn't have anybody to teach me, so it was a long arduous process. My son on the other hand started out with a .22, then went to a 223 and now shoots a 6.5 creedmoor. He is a phenomenal marksman at 14 yrs old.

 

[Grizzly60]

Carlos Hathcock Method of Sighting in a Rifle

Carlos had me Shoot 1x/day & record everything into a log book, the Rationale was that "How many shots do you think you are going to get at a deer?"

www.google.com

Interesting article

 

[WildRose]

My opinion is that it is easier to learn shooting fundamentals with low recoil rounds. I didn't have anybody to teach me, so it was a long arduous process. My son on the other hand started out with a .22, then went to a 223 and now shoots a 6.5 creedmoor. He is a phenomenal marksman at 14 yrs old.

Start small and workup, best way I know not to develop a flinch.

Never, every set someone up to fail by lying to them about what to expect when it goes "boom".

I saw a guy bs his own 8yo kid into believing he was shooting a .223 when it fact it was an unbraked 300wm. I doubt the kid will ever pick up another rifle of his own volition for the rest of his life.

Dad and his buddies were laughing their butts off as the kid was laying on the ground behind the bench bleeding from the scope bite and thinking he'd been kicked in the head by a mule.

Start small, build confidence, and let them move up as they are ready for more

 

[QuietTexan]

A lot of things can go wrong in follow through and coming back to the target, but getting the first shot off fast and accurately is a skill that can be worked on with dry fire and low-recoil rounds. It's also a way to prove to someone they have an anticipatory flinch and the reason they're missing isn't managing recoil - help them separate the two different issues.

Some things like trigger reset you have to actually feel, so shooting a lot of something cheaper means you get more cycles on the trigger. 22LR ARs and finally getting a factory 22LR Glock have been good teaching tools.

Making wind calls for someone else to shoot is also very instructive. You can do it in groups, have everyone write down their call and compare to the spotter's call and actual impact. Everyone wants to shoot, but wind skills are so much more critical than anything to do with the technical side of building and loading for a rifle.

I saw a guy bs his own 8yo kid into believing he was shooting a .223 when it fact it was an unbraked 300wm. I doubt the kid will ever pick up another rifle of his own volition for the rest of his life.

Dad and his buddies were laughing their butts off as the kid was laying on the ground behind the bench bleeding from the scope bite and thinking he'd been kicked in the head by a mule.

Misleading him about it was messed up, I agree that's how you make kids never want to do it again. But I will say that there was something to my old man's theory of being up front that it was going to hurt but I'd live through it, and then working on how to learn to handle it. I laugh about the halo scar that all 30-06 guys have, but I earned mine after I knew better and deserved it.

I've also heard the stories of old guys tying string to the trigger of a CMP M-1 and running through a en bloc clip with the only goal being stay on target, get back on target, focus on the target and ignore the recoil.

 

[WildRose]

While shooting my friends 40 compact Glock I noticed myself developing a flinch, my friends at club say you should practice with the loads you carry for self defense but I have read the opposite, believe it was in guns and ammo, they say you should practice with smaller loads so you don't develop a flinch and if you ever had to use your gun for self defense u will not even feel the recoil cause of your elevated excitement, this of course was for pistols and I could see shooting your actual self defense rounds some just to make sure poi is the same.

Best to train with what you're going to carry. If you can't control it on the range you certainly won't be able to in a dynamic self defense situation.

Confidence is built with practice.

A lot of things can go wrong in follow through and coming back to the target, but getting the first shot off fast and accurately is a skill that can be worked on with dry fire and low-recoil rounds. It's also a way to prove to someone they have an anticipatory flinch and the reason they're missing isn't managing recoil - help them separate the two different issues.

Some things like trigger reset you have to actually feel, so shooting a lot of something cheaper means you get more cycles on the trigger. 22LR ARs and finally getting a factory 22LR Glock have been good teaching tools.

Making wind calls for someone else to shoot is also very instructive. You can do it in groups, have everyone write down their call and compare to the spotter's call and actual impact. Everyone wants to shoot, but wind skills are so much more critical than anything to do with the technical side of building and loading for a rifle.


Misleading him about it was messed up, I agree that's how you make kids never want to do it again. But I will say that there was something to my old man's theory of being up front that it was going to hurt but I'd live through it, and then working on how to learn to handle it. I laugh about the halo scar that all 30-06 guys have, but I earned mine after I knew better and deserved it.

I've also heard the stories of old guys tying string to the trigger of a CMP M-1 and running through a en bloc clip with the only goal being stay on target, get back on target, focus on the target and ignore the recoil.

I've seen a lot of people, not just kids develop a flinch even on rifles as mild as a .308 or 30-06 because they could not get comfortable with the recoil.

I've found starting small works better. Even the US Military started with .22 trainers for a very long time and it worked extremely well.

Not much of an issue these days with 5.56's and recoil absorbing semi auto's but the principle remains the same.

 

[Mike Matteson]

You need to know your rifle, and how it shoots. Reloading is important part of it. I have done about 1/4" groups with my 220 Swift and over and over again. My equipment was a RCBS including dies. My scale is a Dia-O-Mat. That I had for 40 years now. Most of my rifles I get somewhere around 1/2 to 3/4 groups with them. One of the biggest thing is learning how to handle the rifle correctly. A lot of the time it's not the rifle, but the shooter. Knowing how it does on the bench is a very good thing to know. I have seen rifle that didn't group very good, and turn some of them into very good shooting rifles, and some not so much. There nothing like shooting ground squirrels at 400 yds to get yourself together. If you are using 5 and 10 lbs trigger, it's doesn't work or you going to get beat up working on getting the trigger to release, and not moving the rifle off it's position. I have done it, but I sure didn't like it. I changed out the trigger in that Ruger with it 8lbs trigger. It was and is shooting about a 3/8" group at 100yds. Nothing done to the stock either. I have shot other people rifles or develop reloads for that rifles that were right out of the box, and got about 5/8" groups. So it can't always be the equipment, it's the shooter. So blaming the equipment isn't really fair. It's what you put into it. I've seen a lot of stupid things on the range. I wonder how they were even allowed to purchase a firearm. The teaching of use of a firearm almost looks like a thing of the past. I feel that most here try and do teach others, and there kids to handle firearms. Not like that village DipSh*ts that go down an get a 15yr old a pistol, and doesn't put the pistol away from that kid. The kid goes down and shoot and kills 4 other kids. I hope that the 3 spend the rest of their life in jail. That at the same time, puts a load on all the rest of us, on ownership of firearms. Yes I do believe in bedding the actions, changing trigger out, and other tricks to get that rifle to shoot, and you to shoot better. I guess I'll get off the box now.

 

[Michael Eichele]

There have been times I've been the weak link by being in a slump or developing bad habits due to cartridges I couldn't handle well. Other times it's been a **** barrel or a **** gunsmith. Once it was a misaligned scope rail. Most of my rifles have held a consistent 1/2 to sub 1/2 MOA consistently. A few have been solid .2-.3 performers. A couple have been .75-1.0 MOA performers.

Personally, I am capable of .25-.5 consistently. Yes I often wonder what's wrong with my equipment when things aren't going well. Especially if there have been changes to the setup and I can swap rifles during the same session and shoot great. One bad session is probably me. Two bad sessions in a row is not normal and is a huge red flag.

 

[MOOSE39465]

I feel like people should spend more time shooting there equipment, a nd learn its capabilities. I'm the worlds worse about buying and selling equipment chasing bigger and better when I can easily spend time with the equipment I have and improve on it.

 

[WildRose]

There have been times I've been the weak link by being in a slump or developing bad habits due to cartridges I couldn't handle well. Other times it's been a **** barrel or a **** gunsmith. Once it was a misaligned scope rail. Most of my rifles have held a consistent 1/2 to sub 1/2 MOA consistently. A few have been solid .2-.3 performers. A couple have been .75-1.0 MOA performers.

Personally, I am capable of .25-.5 consistently. Yes I often wonder what's wrong with my equipment when things aren't going well. Especially if there have been changes to the setup and I can swap rifles during the same session and shoot great. One bad session is probably me. Two bad sessions in a row is not normal and is a huge red flag.

Been there, done that. Sometimes you just have to walk away and pick something else up for the rest of the hunt/season.

Oddly enough the one's that frustrate us so often seem to miraculously cure themselves with a little rest.

I know for sure that almost to an absolute certainty I know if I've made a good shot when I pull the trigger. If I know that I've screwed a couple up it's easy to try and fight through it only making matters worse.

Since I have no shortage of rifles for any purpose, there's no sense beating my head against a wall only to make things even worse.

 

[WildRose]

I feel like people should spend more time shooting there equipment, a nd learn its capabilities. I'm the worlds worse about buying and selling equipment chasing bigger and better when I can easily spend time with the equipment I have and improve on it.

True, but more often than not I find it's US that needs improving more than our equipment.