Accuracy issues - who or what is to blame?

[esshup]

I believe if the gun has high precision, the low accuracy problem can be compensated for. The rifle is guaranteed for the moa, not the shooter. In the low accuracy, high precision example, the rifle is within what the builder guaranteed it to do. i.e. 1/4 or 1/2 moa, nothing is specified where that moa is on the target.

 

[Muddyboots]

And then you run into a factory rifle that just makes you to pause and ask "really"? This was shot out of my son's 15 year old 700ADL 22" barrel 30-06 wild turkey federation (I'd use initials but it would be flagged) badged rifle. Completely stock except for Holland sear spring change out. This was 180HH @2875 so not a wimpy load. This was at 100 yards but I shot it out to 300 and Dang it held 1/2MOA together even at 300! Go figure. My son is a bow hunter and never could shoot well at distance until he shot this load. He is now into shooting farther than he ever did before. BTW the little squares are 1/2".

So high precision firearm? Nope, 700 ADL? Is it the bullet? Load? Barrel (factory 22" barrel doubt high precision), optics? Nope plain Jane Nikon 2.5x10x40, planets lined up? That I believe more likely.

Its stuff like this that you shake your head when at bench with custom.?

 

[Bravo 4]

This was 180HH

Is it the bullet?

Answered your own question…

100% agree with your last statement.

 

[Beluebow]

Well if they are shooting supported off of a bench and using a modicum of marksmanship 1/4 MOA is pretty easy IMHO.. If you reload and have a decent firearm it should be pretty easy to attain.

Are we talking 1/4moa at 100 or 1000?......One is way easier than the other.....unfortunately it's not linear either.

 

[esshup]

Are we talking 1/4moa at 100 or 1000?......One is way easier than the other.....unfortunately it's not linear either.

Uummm, it IS linear. Wind makes it more difficult the further you shoot but it is still linear. A moa is a moa whether it's at 100 yds or a mile.

 

[esshup]

And then you run into a factory rifle that just makes you to pause and ask "really"? This was shot out of my son's 15 year old 700ADL 22" barrel 30-06 wild turkey federation (I'd use initials but it would be flagged) badged rifle. Completely stock except for Holland sear spring change out. This was 180HH @2875 so not a wimpy load. This was at 100 yards but I shot it out to 300 and Dang it held 1/2MOA together even at 300! Go figure. My son is a bow hunter and never could shoot well at distance until he shot this load. He is now into shooting farther than he ever did before. BTW the little squares are 1/2".

So high precision firearm? Nope, 700 ADL? Is it the bullet? Load? Barrel (factory 22" barrel doubt high precision), optics? Nope plain Jane Nikon 2.5x10x40, planets lined up? That I believe more likely.

Its stuff like this that you shake your head when at bench with custom.?
View attachment 327911

I gave my nephew a cheap Mossberg in .270. Topped it off with a rather large ATN scope. It took us almost all day to break in the barrel because it was so rough but after some load development he shot a 3/4" c-c group from the bench at 300 yds. 140g Sierra Gameking, RL-22 powder. 2650 fps mv.

 

[Texis]

Chasing groups tighter than 1/2" has been know to induce madness. Shoot enough rounds into the same paper and it becomes a bug hole

 

[FlipKing]

I had a Benelli Lupo that was 2moa with Hornady and .27 moa with Federal or HSM. Shooting tiny groups us hard and takes work sometimes. Some guns shoot all bullets well, and some guns shoot just a few bullets exceptionally.

 

[RidgeTop]

I was sighting in .300Wby in a Wby MK V . 180gr Partition. Shot 3, adjusted scope. shot again then adjusted to about 1" high. (Bear hunt would be at close range.) The gun can shoot.

 

[Grizzly60]

That`s the " I`d rather be lucky, than good" syndrome

My ole grampaw would say, if I shake right I'll hit him. He was known for taking a nip.

 

[Laguna Freak]

Most rifles are not repeatedly accurate to 1/4"-1/2". An occasional hummer group is nice to see but is essentially meaningless.

That kind of accuracy requires an accurate rifle with a good barrel and bedding. Then it must be feed compatibly accurate ammo. All this before the Indian even lifts the rifle from the bench.

Just my 2 cents

True. But in hunting situations, its the 1st shot that must impact the same 1/2 moa every time. All repeatability is about the 1st shot. 2nd shot can be important when an animal is thrashing around on the ground. IMO 1/2 moa is to be strived for in every rifle : load combination.

1/2 moa is a difference maker under field conditions and buck fever.

 

[MagnumManiac]

I do not even measure my groups in inches.
I also do not measure groups from anything smaller than 10 shots at each powder weight when tuning.
If you think taking a measurement on a 3 round group and say that your rifle is capable of holding that precision in a 10 shot string over several attempts at different days, you are fooling yourself.
It is the same chasing a node that is .2g-.3g wide and a seating depth that is only .003" wide to get the bestest groups possible.
Getting a wide node and a seating depth that is wide but is more CONSISTENT over shooting 200 rounds in a weekend match is more productive giving a more stable aggregate.
I have seen 5 shot groups that were almost touching in the morning, but by the afternoon that opened well past acceptable size, even at 300 and 600. A wider node gives a little larger group, but stays the same throughout the day.
Anyway, that's how I look at accuracy and precision. One group means almost nothing.

Cheers.

 

[GSPRunner]

I do not even measure my groups in inches.
I also do not measure groups from anything smaller than 10 shots at each powder weight when tuning.
If you think taking a measurement on a 3 round group and say that your rifle is capable of holding that precision in a 10 shot string over several attempts at different days, you are fooling yourself.
It is the same chasing a node that is .2g-.3g wide and a seating depth that is only .003" wide to get the bestest groups possible.
Getting a wide node and a seating depth that is wide but is more CONSISTENT over shooting 200 rounds in a weekend match is more productive giving a more stable aggregate.
I have seen 5 shot groups that were almost touching in the morning, but by the afternoon that opened well past acceptable size, even at 300 and 600. A wider node gives a little larger group, but stays the same throughout the day.
Anyway, that's how I look at accuracy and precision. One group means almost nothing.

Cheers.

With the cost of ammo and components there should be an exception granted for 3 shot groups…lol.

 

[ajkellerusmc]

A **** poor rifle with crappy ammo, a shooter standing up shooting with no rest, in the wind, and an unknown distance.....if the animal bolts at the last second it may very well run into the bullet. And behold, that shooter will proclaim all over the internet that he made a perfect shot at 900 yards!!

Accidents can and will happen with little or no notice....

With open sights! I heard that one time.