? about bad barrel blank

shortgrass said:
I don't know what Wilson is calling the "bullet seat". The short freebore ahead of the case mouth, maybe? As for the "throat not being cut correctly", the bullet needs to enter the rifling squarely. If the 'funnel' (the angled throat) is cut more on one side than the other, the bullet would upset and not enter the rifling squarely, which would create a non-concentric condition of the bullet, causing inaccuracy. The use of a fixed pilot reamer might case this. There is play between the pilot and the bore, sometimes as much as .008". That's .004" on each side. The scaring caused by the fixed pilot happens when the very fine chips collect between the pilot and the lands. Even being slightly out of alignment of the reamer to bore can mean the reamer cuts on 1 side more than the other. The use of a reamer with removable pilots where the pilot is no more than 1/2 thou smaller than the bore helps eliminate this condition, but it can create other issues if the holder doesn't have enough 'play' to allow self alignment . Another 'condition ' that might exist that can cause issues is the reamer only cutting on 1 or 2 flutes. Not all reamers that are manufactured are of equal quality. You can see where only cutting on 1 - 2 flutes might bring 'issues'. If a guy is gonna' use a solid pilot reamer I'd suggest pre-boring, with a boring bar, before using the reamer. That would help 'guide' the body of the reamer where you'd not be dependent on the pilot & bore and the built in clearance between those. It may not take a 'ton' of money to set-up a chambering operation. It's knowing the fine points of the process and of the tooling to have a successful out come. First is the cost of the lathe, then the cost of the tooling. A guy could get by with an old fashioned rocker tool post off of e-Bay and make his own 'floating' reamer holder, if he wanted to save some $$. HS turning tool blanks aren't outrageously priced if you look around, and you don't discard them when they dull, you just re-sharpen them. With the cost of a removable pilot reamer, it will pay for itself with the first chamber cut and I have worked at a discounted hourly rate for that 1st one. The 2nd chamber with that reamer profit begins to appear. With the 3rd, the initial cost becomes even lower,,,, and so on, and so on. As far as renting reamers, I have been mostly disappointed the 3 times I have rented in the past 27yrs. (I have only rented in the past 10yrs or so). I need to be able to trust my tooling. I have chambered both ways, between centers and thru the head. I have only used what has been called in this thread, "pricey" barrel blanks. I need to have confidence in the blank I am chambering, too,,,,,, as well as having confidence in what my lathe is capable of and confidence in my set-up and what I am capable of. If I was to use a 'tiny' lathe, like you have, I think I'd have to use a Bald Eagle type pusher. I may not be a "master" as some like to refer themselves as, but I have been machining since '74, and chambering since '91 when I cut my first chamber (a .280 Rem for a Win 70 while in gunsmith school. The machine was a '70's vintage South Bend Heavy 10. Not a 'large' lathe by any stretch, it only has a 10" swing but it does have a bit of weight and rigidity. The holder and reamer were both a Clymer. Solid pilot on the reamer.) I cut a very good chamber 1st time. I had confidence in that little South Bend, the tooling, and my abilities with my machining back ground. We were taught to pre-drill and then pre-bore before reaming.
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.008" !?
I went and measured a solid pilot I have in 300rum. The pilot measured 2.9988". I'd be interested to see which brand of reamer and which cartridge you found the .008" different
 
Two PT&G Finish chambering reamers. I bought at steep discounts, both from Midway ,years ago. I haven't used either one, a 35 Whelen AI and a .30-40 Krag (the Whelen has .008, the Krag has .007"). If I had an order for either, it'd go to Dave Manson to be converted to removable pilot with oil grooves. The .23/35 I bought at the same time measures .2495. I swore off of PT&G many years ago. Too many that wouldn't cut, only cut on 1 flute that needed to be re-worked and/or poor customer service. Awful slow to deliver from the factory, too. If you can drill/then pre-bore properly you don't even need a pilot. Let the body of the reamer guide you.
 
shortgrass said:
Two PT&G Finish chambering reamers. I bought at steep discounts, both from Midway ,years ago. I haven't used either one, a 35 Whelen AI and a .30-40 Krag (the Whelen has .008, the Krag has .007"). If I had an order for either, it'd go to Dave Manson to be converted to removable pilot with oil grooves. The .23/35 I bought at the same time measures .2495. I swore off of PT&G many years ago. Too many that wouldn't cut, only cut on 1 flute that needed to be re-worked and/or poor customer service. Awful slow to deliver from the factory, too. If you can drill/then pre-bore properly you don't even need a pilot. Let the body of the reamer guide you.
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I am guessing your situation is the exception rather than the rule. If solid pilots were that far off of tolerance, they wouldn't sell any and have to refund money for every one.
 
I have 3 old Clymer finish reamers that the machining instructor gave me at the end of the 2 yrs. Those 3 had been sharpened all they could be. He said, 'they might cut you a chamber or two, each, if you're careful." I mic ed the solid pilots on those, each was 1/2 thou under bore dia. Maybe PT&G was selling Midway their rejects? Might be why they were cheap? We check our removable pilots for fit, might be a good idea to check the solid pilots, too! I have been using removable pilots for at least 24yrs.
 
shortgrass said:
I have 3 old Clymer finish reamers that the machining instructor gave me at the end of the 2 yrs. Those 3 had been sharpened all they could be. He said, 'they might cut you a chamber or two, each, if you're careful." I mic ed the solid pilots on those, each was 1/2 thou under bore dia. Maybe PT&G was selling Midway their rejects? Might be why they were cheap? We check our removable pilots for fit, might be a good idea to check the solid pilots, too! I have been using removable pilots for at least 24yrs.
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I have mainly live pilots, too, but have had good luck with my solids. Guess you got the lemon :)
 
Interesting, After reading what you guys said I was curious. I measured a 358 Winchester solid pilot I have from PTG and it measured 349. I know Kiff went through a time some years back where his chief machinist had health trouble and Dave went through a divorce. Yes things went to pot for awhile but in the last 3 years I have bought them and all were good. JGS are very good but so sharp before I cut the first chamber I use an old all copper penny and go down all the flutes to dull them a bit. No I am not daft. Kerry at Jgs told me to. Dave Manson makes great stuff but I sure hate those jesus clips. Why jesus? Because when you are under a magnifier with 2 picks and they go flying into the unknown you say Oh Jesus!!! lol I make sure I keep lots of extras on hand;)
 
Got a question. I was reading the email again that I received from Wilson and it says that the barrel has a .010"-012" bow in the middle. My friend seems to remember it actually being a little more than that. Do you guys feel that much bend or bow is okay? I sent my friend the email and he said a bent or bowed barrel can never be sighted in. Just wanted to get your thoughts, thanks.
 
I'm guessing that is a difference in the od not the id. Doubt they stuffed a 15" dial indicator down the barrel :) It can be turned down if you don't like it.
 
Nope, I was just wondering if that could be a reason as to why the rifle wasn't shooting good. I know the od of the barrel usually has nothing to do with being concentric to the bore, so I guess it just wasn't contoured properly and it's more cosmetic than anything esle.
 
70oldsracer said:
Got a question. I was reading the email again that I received from Wilson and it says that the barrel has a .010"-012" bow in the middle. My friend seems to remember it actually being a little more than that. Do you guys feel that much bend or bow is okay? I sent my friend the email and he said a bent or bowed barrel can never be sighted in. Just wanted to get your thoughts, thanks.
Click to expand...
I have put on many barrels and most have that and more. The only barrel I ever put on that was plumb strait was a hart. I have chambered many that were worse than .012. I work between centers so all is there to see. let us see. .010 in the middle would be divided by 12. Less than a thou per inch. Run your tool post holder in the middle with a marker mounted and spin the barrel to find the high spot. Time your barrel so that is at the bottom. It will shoot high but that can be compensated for. But it will not make a barrel not shoot. I run into this all the time. I consult with a customer and he runs to a friend who does not know his %$# from a hole in the ground and he gets all wigged out. By the way what did Wilson say about the chamber and the throat?
 
David Emerson said:
I have put on many barrels and most have that and more. The only barrel I ever put on that was plumb strait was a hart. I have chambered many that were worse than .012. I work between centers so all is there to see. let us see. .010 in the middle would be divided by 12. Less than a thou per inch. Run your tool post holder in the middle with a marker mounted and spin the barrel to find the high spot. Time your barrel so that is at the bottom. It will shoot high but that can be compensated for. But it will not make a barrel not shoot. I run into this all the time. I consult with a customer and he runs to a friend who does not know his %$# from a hole in the ground and he gets all wigged out. By the way what did Wilson say about the chamber and the throat?
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I savage is 20 TPI so one whole turn would be .050
 
Okay, just thought I'd update this thread. I got the barrel back from Wilson yesterday and here is what they did. Hoping this fixes the issue.
YSSWQ2.jpg

wF9iQT.jpg
 

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