David Emerson
Well-Known Member
But it is worth it to see them smile when the rifle shoots bug holes
? about bad barrel blank
- Thread starter 70oldsracer
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Not taking anything away from gunsmiths, because there are so many kinds of firearms they have to learn the nuances to, but it doesn't take a lot of expensive equipment or special knowledge to build an accurate rifle. I think we all make it out to be a lot harder than it is at times.
70oldsracer
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I totally get the high dollar price tag for barrel fitting. There are a lot of costs involved, machines, tooling, labor, rent, electric, etc. If you're doing this for a living, all these variables have to be taken into account and I definitely get that. Like I mentioned earlier, this is just a hobby for me, so maybe I spent more money in time and tooling then it would have cost me to send the barrel out to have it done, but it's a way for me to learn. Okay, back to the barrel, Like Shortgrass said, all anyone here can do is speculate as to what the actual issue is without having the barrel in your possession to actually examine it. Wilson has the barrel and has inspected it, but hasn't really elaborated as to why the rifle was all over the place. Taking the muzzle out of the equation (because I know it wasn't like this when I shot it) How does the throat not being cut correctly effect the accuracy of the barrel. I'm not asking this to be a wise guy, I'm asking for a real explanation. Also, how would the throat get cut wrong? Wilson suggested they can try to cut the bullet seat, but they can not say this would make the barrel shoot, especially if they can't cut the throat. What is the difference of the bullet seat and the throat? Thanks.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
The only way it could get cut wrong is if it is off center some. But if it is I do not know how they could possibly correct it as the chamber would be out some. Maybe the whole barrel is a turd. Like another said without being in my hands to bore scope it and measure it it is impossible to tell. Or maybe it is the scope? So many variables. I got a rifle once that was doing this to an extent once. Head scratcher. Finally I shot a 10 shot group and I had a 2 group group. Ah ha changed the scope and it shot well. To answer your question I assume in them saying bullet seat they are talking the throat. Another thing that just came to my mind is the action seat in front of the threads. did you just cut forward from the threads? Or stab in from the side? After threading I bottom my bit in the thread relief groove to establish zero and pull out and take a .005 cut going directly in from the side to the depth of the relief groove. Then you know that the flange that mates up to the action or recoil lug is perfectly square. I have seen that make a barrel shoot bad if it is not right.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
In thinking about it possibly they could go in with a piloted throater and touch it up. But then you would have an eccentric throat.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
I know cooper uses Wilson barrels and they shoot very well. But all barrel makers occasionally get a bad one that gets through but rarely.
I like the idea. If you are going to dial it in, you could even trim everything back .050"(pick a number) and try it again. Running your reamer in with your is forgiving since it's floating.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
If the throat is a little off center it is not concentric and then when you shout it the bullet basically has to go around a corner and gets distorted. Minutely of coarse but it doesn,t take much. Dave Kiff Of PTG likes the reamer to be within .0002 of center. As exact as you can possibly get.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
Disregard what I said about the surface mating to the action. Savage with a barrel nut. The barrel nut will center the barrel on it,s own.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
When the nuts tightens up the angle of the threads with automatically center the barrel in the action. For lube I use marine anti seize. It looks like thick moly grease.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
If worse comes to worse you could cut an inch off and retread and start over. BUT you will need a bushinged reamer. The solid pilot would follow your old chamber that is crooked if in fact that is really the case. There are reamer rental companies that rent reamers. And of course you would need a set of bushings too.
David Emerson
Well-Known Member
My bad. And a bushing check rod to see what size bushing the bore needs
shortgrass
Well-Known Member
I don't know what Wilson is calling the "bullet seat". The short freebore ahead of the case mouth, maybe? As for the "throat not being cut correctly", the bullet needs to enter the rifling squarely. If the 'funnel' (the angled throat) is cut more on one side than the other, the bullet would upset and not enter the rifling squarely, which would create a non-concentric condition of the bullet, causing inaccuracy. The use of a fixed pilot reamer might case this. There is play between the pilot and the bore, sometimes as much as .008". That's .004" on each side. The scaring caused by the fixed pilot happens when the very fine chips collect between the pilot and the lands. Even being slightly out of alignment of the reamer to bore can mean the reamer cuts on 1 side more than the other. The use of a reamer with removable pilots where the pilot is no more than 1/2 thou smaller than the bore helps eliminate this condition, but it can create other issues if the holder doesn't have enough 'play' to allow self alignment . Another 'condition ' that might exist that can cause issues is the reamer only cutting on 1 or 2 flutes. Not all reamers that are manufactured are of equal quality. You can see where only cutting on 1 - 2 flutes might bring 'issues'. If a guy is gonna' use a solid pilot reamer I'd suggest pre-boring, with a boring bar, before using the reamer. That would help 'guide' the body of the reamer where you'd not be dependent on the pilot & bore and the built in clearance between those. It may not take a 'ton' of money to set-up a chambering operation. It's knowing the fine points of the process and of the tooling to have a successful out come. First is the cost of the lathe, then the cost of the tooling. A guy could get by with an old fashioned rocker tool post off of e-Bay and make his own 'floating' reamer holder, if he wanted to save some $$. HS turning tool blanks aren't outrageously priced if you look around, and you don't discard them when they dull, you just re-sharpen them. With the cost of a removable pilot reamer, it will pay for itself with the first chamber cut and I have worked at a discounted hourly rate for that 1st one. The 2nd chamber with that reamer profit begins to appear. With the 3rd, the initial cost becomes even lower,,,, and so on, and so on. As far as renting reamers, I have been mostly disappointed the 3 times I have rented in the past 27yrs. (I have only rented in the past 10yrs or so). I need to be able to trust my tooling. I have chambered both ways, between centers and thru the head. I have only used what has been called in this thread, "pricey" barrel blanks. I need to have confidence in the blank I am chambering, too,,,,,, as well as having confidence in what my lathe is capable of and confidence in my set-up and what I am capable of. If I was to use a 'tiny' lathe, like you have, I think I'd have to use a Bald Eagle type pusher. I may not be a "master" as some like to refer themselves as, but I have been machining since '74, and chambering since '91 when I cut my first chamber (a .280 Rem for a Win 70 while in gunsmith school. The machine was a '70's vintage South Bend Heavy 10. Not a 'large' lathe by any stretch, it only has a 10" swing but it does have a bit of weight and rigidity. The holder and reamer were both a Clymer. Solid pilot on the reamer.) I cut a very good chamber 1st time. I had confidence in that little South Bend, the tooling, and my abilities with my machining back ground. We were taught to pre-drill and then pre-bore before reaming.
70oldsracer
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- Apr 16, 2016
- Messages
- 118
I just wish Wilson would have been a little more clearer as to what exactly was wrong with the throat. There are obviously still a lot of variables here and I hope to clear that up with them tomorrow.
