7mm STW Brotherhood - For those who shoot the 7mm Shooting Times Westerner

[Big Jake Duke]

about it. Recover the deer, it was like you took a shovel, and just scooped out a baseball size chunk of shoulder. The animal dragged the remainder of the leg about 200 yards before it finally expired. I'm sorry, no more ham- Berger for me.[/QUOTE]


Wow. That happened to you twice with the Bergers? The penetration did not get past the shoulder bone?

I have heard the Bergers lauded on this forum (maybe not this thread), I have also heard that at "super" speed some versions developed nose slump. Do you think this caused the problem? Did they group well at those speeds?
Have you had that happen with any other bullet at those speeds?

I am not arguing, i am just curious. I have a few boxes to load up.

 

[etisll40]

I only get 2 tags for deer here and I really want themost meat in the freezer. To Berger or not? Who's got the answer!?

 

[Lycan]

Bullet selection with the STW can be tricky. The Hornady 139gr spire point is the most explosive bullet I've ever used (I've loaded some 120 Ballistic Tips up to 3700fps but never tried them on a deer). The 139's always fragment violently out of the STW. They anchor deer DRT, but it's going to leave a mess.

I've drilled at least 20 with the 140 CT ballistic tips as well as the regular 140 and 150 gr Ballistic Tips. I've only had 2 deer in that bunch that weren't DRT when shot in the lung area. The early bullets often didn't go through, but Nosler later strengthened the jacket and I began to see exit wounds with the 140's at 3400fps. Not all of them, but enough to notice. I've never been a "premium" bullet fan as critical tissue disruption is what drops an animal fast and I prefer that.

One thing to take into consideration with the longer bullets and your twist rate is yaw. When I was shooting 160 Partition it took a while for the bullet to stabilize and I found out quickly that most any bullet can fragment if it strikes the animal off-axis. Below is the ENTRANCE hole of a small doe I shot at 20 yards. No exit at 3150fps.

I've not shot a deer yet with the Bergers but it may explain why some people have issues with them and others do not. Could just be the twist rates are differing.

Anyhow, this is a not safe for work/gory shot so don't click on the link if that offends you. I did look for any forum rules against this, but didn't find any. If it's an issue, please let me know and I'll remove it.

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr20/lycanthrope9/partition.jpg

 

[etisll40]

Thanks for posting that. I do like a 1-2" exit hole. I guess the risk with that may be that some tracking will have to be done? The deer I shot last year had a 2" or so exit wound and dropped close to it. I wonder if a lighter bullet might be better or worse? Any ideas on that?

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

I personally like the sierra 140 fb or the nos 140 ab for deer in the bigger 7's. I know a lot of guys are going heavier, but at 600-700 yards out of a big 7, the sierra will still open and drop the critter well. drt is the term I believe. My longest kill with the nos was 480 yards out of my last 7stw, and you could see through the neck where I hit it. Nice clean punch through with no fragging. I've never had either pill fail to get in and do its magic.

 

[etisll40]

Thanks Righty.

 

[Lefty7mmstw]

Thanks Righty.

<G>

thems fightin words......

 

[Lycan]

Thanks for posting that. I do like a 1-2" exit hole. I guess the risk with that may be that some tracking will have to be done? The deer I shot last year had a 2" or so exit wound and dropped close to it. I wonder if a lighter bullet might be better or worse? Any ideas on that?

It depends. Some deer will drop right there with a bullet that stays together and punches a 1" exit. With others, you can totally frag their insides and they keep going. I once shot a doe through the very bottom of the heart with a 139 Hornady (out of a 7 mag) and it left a softball sized exit and she ran 30 yards painting a 3 foot wide swath of blood.

A lot of it depends on the animal, shot placement and how much critical tissue is destroyed. It is, however, my experience that the bullets that fragment...or at least expand violently.... in the boiler room tend to drop deer a lot faster than bullets that punch through. Your mileage may vary.

 

[WapitiBob]

I'm shooting Elk and Antelope with 180 gr Bergers in just over a week. I have no idea what they'll do. I'm aiming behind the shoulder rather than high shoulder/bone, I know that.

 

[etisll40]

A lot of people seem to be taking Elk with them. I'll bet the trick is the speed it slows too. Sounds like up close, don't hit bone and under some number 3000fps? probably much lower they hold together just fine. Ask BROZ on here what speed, he seems to use them religiously.

 

[etisll40]

Lefty, get your paintball gun out!

 

[7stw]

about it. Recover the deer, it was like you took a shovel, and just scooped out a baseball size chunk of shoulder. The animal dragged the remainder of the leg about 200 yards before it finally expired. I'm sorry, no more ham- Berger for me.

Wow. That happened to you twice with the Bergers? The penetration did not get past the shoulder bone?

I have heard the Bergers lauded on this forum (maybe not this thread), I have also heard that at "super" speed some versions developed nose slump. Do you think this caused the problem? Did they group well at those speeds?
Have you had that happen with any other bullet at those speeds?

I am not arguing, i am just curious. I have a few boxes to load up.[/QUOTE]

Big Jake, yeah, that did happen to me twice. When it happened to me in July, I thought, huh' maybe a bad batch. That was in seven millimeter. In November, earlier the same day that I lost the doe, I made a perfect high spine shot. DRT. Spine was severed. Again, this was in 30 caliber.
As far as the groups, they were fantastic. My seven mag 700 p shoots 1/4 inch at 200 with 168 VLD. The 300 RUM was shooting sub minute groups consistently, speed was 3369. Accuracy wise, those are probably the most accurate bullets I have ever shot. It may never happen again, and I have friends that swear by them. Again , these are my experiences, I have shared similar ones with others. I have just opted to go another way. ( velocity on the seven mag was 2977).
As far as similar experiences with other bullets, the short answer is no. Prior to shooting the Bergers, I was shooting 165 Failsafes, and 165 Accubonds. My rifle preferred the Failsafes, but my supply ran out, and they no longer make them. I have shot partitions, CT, BT in some other STW's with no problems. The most successful, and nearly a go to bullet is the 140 CT. To my knowledge, nothing has gotten away, and usually DRT. Time will tell if I made the right decision.

 

[greenshovel]

I posted a pic earlier and it had the wrong data :-( Sorry about that. the shot group actually should have been .519, lol.

I went to the range and shot my 270 and it was .889 and i realized the other group was inaccurate.

 

[etisll40]

Nice group.