7mm Rem Mag

[CB11WYO]

For what it's worth...
I just swapped my .300 RUM for a 7mm Rem Mag (re-barreled actually). I'm finding, among many other things, that I really enjoy the reduced recoil (I'm a pretty small guy). I'm hoping to be able to push the 7mm 180 gr Bergers to 1000 yards, or maybe more, on elk this year.

 

[dakor]

I say just build you a 7mmSTW and be done with it. greater capacity than 300 WinMag, and a 7mm Bullet. Flatter, faster, more KE, insane trajectory, and highly underestimated since people seem to be on this "big-bore" overkill fad right now.

Mudrunner2005,

If you only knew how many times I have said what you just did over the years and was flamed for it. I would take a 7mm STW with 180gr + bullets over most things including a 300 win. There is .024 difference between a 30 cal and a 7mm. Dial that up on a Caliper or stack 12 pieces of scotch tape on each other and look how much difference there is in bullet diameter. It amounts to squat.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

The 7STW guys on this forum are gonna learn to hate me. I would go with a 7 Dakota any day. Not to mention the OP is concerned about recoil and when you go to an STW, you're going to similar recoil as a 300 WM and the 300 will still deliver more mass and KE down range.

If you only knew how many times I have said what you just did over the years and was flamed for it. I would take a 7mm STW with 180gr + bullets over most things including a 300 win. There is .024 difference between a 30 cal and a 7mm. Dial that up on a Caliper or stack 12 pieces of scotch tape on each other and look how much difference there is in bullet diameter. It amounts to squat.

When diameter increases, frontal area and mass increase exponentially.

The unexpanded frontal area of a 7mm is .063 sqin vs .074 sqin for a .308. That's about 17% increase over the 7mm. Factor in expansion and the difference is greater. The 215 bullet has has 19% more mass than a 180 bullet. Overall you're going to get about 20% more smack and destruction form the 300WM vs 7RM. That's a little more than "squat"

I say just build you a 7mmSTW and be done with it. greater capacity than 300 WinMag, and a 7mm Bullet. Flatter, faster, more KE, insane trajectory, and highly underestimated since people seem to be on this "big-bore" overkill fad right now.

That kind of statement just cause me to shake my head as it is total BS. And... there is more to killing than KE. KE is not a pure killing factor. It helps, but there is more to the equation than that.

Hey fellas, can you kill an elk with a 22 LR. Yup, you sure can. Would I try it? Nope. Why? Because it's extremely small and light and slow. How about a 22-250? Yes again, it can definitely kill an elk. Would I use it? Nope.

I think everyone agrees that the higher you climb the ladder, the GREATER the EFFECTIVE KILLING FACTOR is. There is no such thing as overkill. There is such a thing as underkill.

For those of you who want assure the OP that a 7RM is a good 1000 yd elk rifle go ahead. I will not. Can it get the job done? Sure. Could it fail? Yup. The 300 WM provides insurance and flexibility. When the 7RM reaches the end of it's effective killing parameters the 300 WM is still good to go. A 7Rm is NOT a 300 WM and never will be, There is nothing magic about about a 7mm.

A 22 is a 22. A 243 is a 243. A 270 is a 270. A 7mm is a 7mm. A 308 is a 308. A 338 is a 338.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

For what it's worth...
I just swapped my .300 RUM for a 7mm Rem Mag (re-barreled actually). I'm finding, among many other things, that I really enjoy the reduced recoil (I'm a pretty small guy). I'm hoping to be able to push the 7mm 180 gr Bergers to 1000 yards, or maybe more, on elk this year.

I've also got a 300 RUM and I'm having another one built with a brake and it will deliver a 230 bullet down range as fast or faster than the a 7RM can deliver a 180 and with less recoil and I'll be able to see my shots.

Well, I'm done beatin this dead horse.

To the OP good luck with your rifle and have a good time with LR shooting!

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Outlaw6.0]

The 7STW guys on this forum are gonna learn to hate me. I would go with a 7 Dakota any day. Not to mention the OP is concerned about recoil and when you go to an STW, you're going to similar recoil as a 300 WM and the 300 will still deliver more mass and KE down range.



When diameter increases, frontal area and mass increase exponentially.

The unexpanded frontal area of a 7mm is .063 sqin vs .074 sqin for a .308. That's about 17% increase over the 7mm. Factor in expansion and the difference is greater. The 215 bullet has has 19% more mass than a 180 bullet. Overall you're going to get about 20% more smack and destruction form the 300WM vs 7RM. That's a little more than "squat"




That kind of statement just cause me to shake my head as it is total BS. And... there is more to killing than KE. KE is not a pure killing factor. It helps, but there is more to the equation than that.

Hey fellas, can you kill an elk with a 22 LR. Yup, you sure can. Would I try it? Nope. Why? Because it's extremely small and light and slow. How about a 22-250? Yes again, it can definitely kill an elk. Would I use it? Nope.

I think everyone agrees that the higher you climb the ladder, the GREATER the EFFECTIVE KILLING FACTOR is. There is no such thing as overkill. There is such a thing as underkill.

For those of you who want assure the OP that a 7RM is a good 1000 yd elk rifle go ahead. I will not. Can it get the job done? Sure. Could it fail? Yup. The 300 WM provides insurance and flexibility. When the 7RM reaches the end of it's effective killing parameters the 300 WM is still good to go. A 7Rm is NOT a 300 WM and never will be, There is nothing magic about about a 7mm.

A 22 is a 22. A 243 is a 243. A 270 is a 270. A 7mm is a 7mm. A 308 is a 308. A 338 is a 338.

AMEN, brother. With BC being equal or similar, I will take the higher cross sectional area every day of the week. To repeat what you've already said, the WM will also last longer in the BBL department, another win for 300. There was a statement about the STW being underrated in a world of overbore mania. If the STW is NOT overbore just what the heck is?! lol Great cartridge, don't get me wrong...

There is a reason our senior members go big when they go long. When (not if) we make a bad wind call, the greater frontal diameter & higher mass WILL transmit more shock & trauma upon impact.

I have also got to recommend a muzzle brake to anyone seriously thinking about shooting (let alone hunting) at long range. The comfort factor alone is WELL worth the extra expense. Think about it, large case capacity + heavy bullet= recoil. You do not want to be worried about getting the snot knocked out of you when the trigger breaks, you want to be worried about wind, breathing, squeezing, animal position...

I vote .300 (with brake) for the LONG stuff, especially for a new shooter. You'll get more barrel life for practicing & a little greater error for margin should your shot drift slightly off.


t

 

[dakor]

MontanaRifleman

I can tell you this I have shot 4 elk and roughly 120 deer. Two elk were shot with 30cals the other two were shot with a 7mm STW. Out of the deer I have shot I would say close to 40 with a 7mm of some sort and 30 ish with a 30 Cal and the rest have been with a mix of calibers. I have yet to see a difference between a 7mm and a 30 and I think I have 70 ish deer taken and 4 elk to go by.
There also is a huge difference in recoil between a 7mm and a 300 win with all things being equal and the OP might not want a muzzle brake. If bigger is better why waste your time with a little 300 RUM? Why not go 338 Edge or 375 Rum? That little squeaker of a 30 has got nothing on those two no matter what bullet you stuff in it. I have said this before to guys who say a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard killer and no one takes me up on it. Give John Burns a call and let him know a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard rifle and see what he has to say. Please report it back here if you do call him.

 

[Dick Tinsley]

MontanaRifleman

I can tell you this I have shot 4 elk and roughly 120 deer. Two elk were shot with 30cals the other two were shot with a 7mm STW. Out of the deer I have shot I would say close to 40 with a 7mm of some sort and 30 ish with a 30 Cal and the rest have been with a mix of calibers. I have yet to see a difference between a 7mm and a 30 and I think I have 70 ish deer taken and 4 elk to go by.
There also is a huge difference in recoil between a 7mm and a 300 win with all things being equal and the OP might not want a muzzle brake. If bigger is better why waste your time with a little 300 RUM? Why not go 338 Edge or 375 Rum? That little squeaker of a 30 has got nothing on those two no matter what bullet you stuff in it. I have said this before to guys who say a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard killer and no one takes me up on it. Give John Burns a call and let him know a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard rifle and see what he has to say. Please report it back here if you do!!

Well!!! That pretty much sums it up!!! Also didn't the man say about a page an a half ago that he's goin with a 7mag???

 

[Outlaw6.0]

MontanaRifleman

...I have said this before to guys who say a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard killer and no one takes me up on it. Give John Burns a call and let him know a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard rifle and see what he has to say. Please report it back here if you do call him.

The OP, being a novice shooter, is NOT John Burns.... hell why stop there? Lets give German Salazar a call... or better yet, lets call David Tubb. You sir are comparing apples to oranges.

A well built & fitted rifle WILL mitigate recoil but it cannot make up the difference in internal performance.


t

 

[MontanaRifleman]

MontanaRifleman

I can tell you this I have shot 4 elk and roughly 120 deer. Two elk were shot with 30cals the other two were shot with a 7mm STW. Out of the deer I have shot I would say close to 40 with a 7mm of some sort and 30 ish with a 30 Cal and the rest have been with a mix of calibers. I have yet to see a difference between a 7mm and a 30 and I think I have 70 ish deer taken and 4 elk to go by.
There also is a huge difference in recoil between a 7mm and a 300 win with all things being equal and the OP might not want a muzzle brake. If bigger is better why waste your time with a little 300 RUM? Why not go 338 Edge or 375 Rum? That little squeaker of a 30 has got nothing on those two no matter what bullet you stuff in it. I have said this before to guys who say a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard killer and no one takes me up on it. Give John Burns a call and let him know a 7mm Rem is not a good 1000 yard rifle and see what he has to say. Please report it back here if you do call him.

I am disputing nothing of what you say. I have already said that a 7RM could get the job done. I also said that I would not assure nor recommend a 7RM for 1000 yd elk slaying. Are you recommending it over a 300 WM for that purpose?

I would have very little problem with shooting smaller game at that range with that cartridge and if all ihad was a 7RM and everything was just right I would probably venture a reasonble 1000 yd shot an elk at 1000 yds. I would be much more confident with a 300 WM at that range on elk. Do you disagree?

I have killed more animals with a 7RM than any other cartridge. It's a good cartridge, but it's not a 300 WM.

Do you consider the 7RM equal to the 300 WM in killing potential especially at longer ranges?

How far was your farthest shot on an elk with a 7RM?

Would you recommend a 7RM to the OP or anyone else who may be reading this, OVER a 300 WM for long range elk hunting?

 

[MontanaRifleman]

MontanaRifleman

There also is a huge difference in recoil between a 7mm and a 300 win with all things being equal and the OP might not want a muzzle brake. If bigger is better why waste your time with a little 300 RUM.

BTW, there are not huge differences in recoil. I have shot both. I have also shot an unbraked 300 RUM and I'm not a big guy.

Bigger is better and I'm not asking which would be better between a 300 RUM and a 338 EDGE. The EDGE is better just like the 300 WM is better than a 7 RM just like a 7RM is better than a 270 WSM.

The question is which is better between the 7RM and the 300WM. Lets stay on subject

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Well!!! That pretty much sums it up!!! Also didn't the man say about a page an a half ago that he's goin with a 7mag???

No it doesn't sum it up.

The OP asked

Enough to kill all north americas big game out to 1000 yards? Some say go with .300....

The 300 WM is the better choice. The OP decided on the 7 because he didn't want a muzzle brake. And I wished him good luck in his endeavors.

 

[MudRunner2005]

Why does everything always have to come down to a perverbial d*ck measuring contest between the .284 fans and the .30 cal guys? And then there's the big-bore 20mm folks that have to have calibers that should be mounted on an M1 Abrahms...It's a joke, laugh you non-sense of humor people.

I have 4 main hunting rifles.

I can do anything I need to, inside of 750 yards with my .257 Weatherby Mag with a 110gr Accubond. Period.

I also have a 7mm Rem Mag that I can do the same with 160gr Accubonds.

I also have a .308 for long-range target shooting.

I also have a 7mmSTW for everything beyond...

What I am getting at is this..... I have multiple different calibers for a reason, they all serve a different purpose. It's not a matter of buying what's popular so you can fit in the with "in crowd" of the gun world. That would be like buying a .308 just b/c that's what snipers use so you can feel like you're cool, too....That's stupid. But what do you expect....Most people are monkey-see, monkey-do.

That's like all these people selling their personal .308's just b/c the military is swapping over exclusively to the .300 WM for their M24's. That's another dumb move. But hey, try telling them that...

Buy what you want, that will make you happy, and also serve the legit purposes you need it for.

Everyone gets all defensive when people talk **** about their caliber, but 90% of the people talking ****, have never even shot one, or handled one, or even seen a bullet for one. It's just like the old saying about opinions being like sphincters....Everybody's got one.

It's not a matter of what you need, it's a matter of what you want.

Do I need a .50BMG......No. Do I want one....You **** right. It will serve absolutely no purpose for me, other than to shoot at long-range metal targets. But I know that, and I'll be the first to admit it. Am I buying it so my friends will think I'm cool.....No. I'm buying it b/c I WANT it. Not because it's practical, or economical, or easy to carry around and maneuver....

Unless you're shooting Moose, I don't see any need for something over .30 caliber, unless you're shooting beyond 1500 yards.


Call me wrong, call me right......I don't care. This post's intention was never to be discussed. It's my opinion. It's correct in my mind. And I'm voicing it.

Now, continue with your thread.

 

[Dick Tinsley]

I'm not gonna say that the 300WM is better! I'm not gonna say that it is not better! You!!! Sir say its better!! To each his own!! Just because you say it's better, doesn't meen it is!! That's the choice an The Right of the individual, whoever it may be!! The OP said earlier that he had made up his mind on what caliber he wants!!! Why are you sir still trying to change his mind?????
Now!!! That Sums It Up!!!!

 

[Dick Tinsley]

Mud runner!!
I couldn't agree more!!! Great Post!!!!!!!

DT