7mm rem mag vs. 270 win

[budlight]

Kind of like Paul Harvey of yesteryear when he used to say " and here is the rest of the story!"

My long time 7mag buddy got rid of his 7 mag and bought the new on the market 7 STW. He had the wealth to do out of state elk hunts and he would get 2-3 elk a year. From oregon to new mexico.

I would not be friend if I told somebody to buy an inferior caliber. You can download a big case, but you can't up load a small one!

 

[Jumpalot]

Your buddy is an idiot!! He's lucky to still be alive and have all his pieces. Why would he even think about trying to match velocities with a cartridge that has much more powder capacity. A good friend as you claim to be would have warned him not to go there. With that said, elk are not bullet proof. You don't need a cannon to kill one. Put the correct bullet in the right spot and they will die. I've only killed about 20 elk with a .270, 7RM, 300WM and an EDGE all died. I don't put a lot of stock in a larger caliber being more forgiving on a bad hit either. The only elk that I've had go more than 100 yds. was hit just a little too far back But still in front of the diaphragm with a 300 grain bullet out of my Edge at less then 400 yds. My fault, just didn't allow for wind and made a bad shot. Tracked it for over a mile before putting it down. I love my 300WM and my Edge, but I haven't noticed them kill anything any faster then my .270 and 7RM. I've gotten rid of the .270 and limit my 7RM and 300 WM to 700 yds. The Edge gets the nod from there on out. So, build a rifle, practice and learn to shoot it. Know your own limitations as well as the rifle you're shooting and put the bullet in the right spot. Not a difficult concept is it??

I don't mean to be rude, but isn't what I said pretty simple?

I'm not a 7 mag fan. They are popping primers and not getting near the velocity of the 7 STW.

I bought a 7stw when it was still a wild cat. I bought a nice chrono to do load development. I had an older friend that loved and bragged about his pre-64 7 mag. So he reloaded up a bunch of test rounds slightly warmer than max out of the reloading books. then it was off to the bench and chrono. That is where my faith in reloaded books came apart. Overly optimistic!!!!!!!!!!

So we spent some real time with 7mag trying all the newest slower powderstrying to get some speed out of a 175 gr. hunting BT bullet. Well he would go back to the reloading bench and attemp to match the speed of a 7 stw. THE 7 MAG ATCUALLY POPPED SOME PRIMERS FROM OVER PRESSURE AND STILL COULDN'T GET WITHIN A 100+ FPS OF A 7STW WITH NO PRESSURE SIGNS!

It is the same thing of the guy bragging about the 30-06 or 300 win mag and shooter "B" pulls out a 300 rum or a 30-378 W The little 30's will be popping primers and not getting the speed of mild loaded ultra mag.

this is not a difficult concept is it?

for the record I'm 5"10 and 168 lbs. I think being given a 12 gauge when I was 11 years old and 65 lbs just got me used to "This is how it is, Cowboy up!" Latter on when I got to go hunting elk with the MEN at age 14 the 30-06 I was handed had less recoil than my short light weight 12 gauge shooting mag rounds. So when some *** hole thought he would have a laugh and handed me a a 338 thinking it would kick my *** because I might have only been 110 lbs wet while at elk camp. I just put his gun across a log and shot it 1/2 a dozen times. All the guys were laughing at him and calling him the *****! Shooting is in your head.

 

[Jumpalot]

My apologies to the OP for going off on a different tangent. I think 700 hundred yds. on elk is starting to push the limits of my 7RM. If I have to do it, I will make sure the conditions are right before I pull the trigger. As far as recoil goes, I really like Kirby's painkiller I have on my Edge and 7RM. I don't have a muzzle break for recoil as much as muzzle jump. Makes it much easier to keep my sight picture.

Sorry if my last post comes off as offensive or attacking anyone. I should have chosen my words more carefully. I'm just concerned when someone tries to push the limits of a cartridge too far. I agree completely that you can download a cartridge but you can't make a smaller cartridge do more.

Whatever you decide, shoot a ton and really learn what you and the rifle can do.

 

[ff6602]

trueblue's advise at a 7RM shooting 168gr berger VLD at 3000fps is the information i found in my research and based my dicision on.
gun)

 

[backwoods83]

I'm gonna jump back in the ****ing match and say for what "little" gain a stw has over a rem mag is not worth the extra powder or reduced barrel life. The rem mag is more efficient because the cases are identical other than length which means better load density and its just known that shorter cartridges with high charges work better, that has been proven with the 7wsm. I look for. Remington to discontinue the stw due to the ability to "download" a 7mm rum. And with norma brass and newer powders such as H1000, retumbo, N165, and RE25, I think the rem mag is a better choice. Of course we all have opinions and that is mine. Btw, what speeds are you all getting with 162-168grn pills in the stw's?

 

[Derek M.]

I don't mean to be rude, but isn't what I said pretty simple?

Yes it was simple. Too simple, and not clear because you didn't qualify whether or not the 7mag was popping primers inherently or because someone was trying somthing stupid by trying to match the velocities of a 7stw. I don't mean to be rude but that is asinine.

Well he would go back to the reloading bench and attemp to match the speed of a 7 stw.

Not a very bright fellow.

THE 7 MAG ATCUALLY POPPED SOME PRIMERS FROM OVER PRESSURE

DUH

It is the same thing of the guy bragging about the 30-06 or 300 win mag and shooter "B" pulls out a 300 rum or a 30-378 W The little 30's will be popping primers and not getting the speed of mild loaded ultra mag.

They are not designed to do so.

this is not a difficult concept is it?

Not at all. It's just that a 7STW is the "answer" to a problem that doesn't exist with the 7mag.

for the record I'm 5"10 and 168 lbs. I think being given a 12 gauge when I was 11 years old and 65 lbs just got me used to "This is how it is, Cowboy up!" Latter on when I got to go hunting elk with the MEN at age 14 the 30-06 I was handed had less recoil than my short light weight 12 gauge shooting mag rounds. So when some *** hole thought he would have a laugh and handed me a a 338 thinking it would kick my *** because I might have only been 110 lbs wet while at elk camp. I just put his gun across a log and shot it 1/2 a dozen times. All the guys were laughing at him and calling him the *****! Shooting is in your head.

I'm not recoil shy either. But to say someone needs a 7STW over a 7mag or you wouldn't be a "friend" is much like saying someone needs a bigger motor in their truck "just because" even if they don't do any towing. The smaller motor still gets you where you are going and uses less gas to do it.

Thanks for qualifying you simple concept as you did not make it clear (to me), so that is why I asked. The gain of the STW is marginal and any elk won't know the difference between the 2 if the hunter is any good at shooting and hunting. That's not a hard concept either.

 

[Derek M.]

I'm gonna jump back in the ****ing match and say for what "little" gain a stw has over a rem mag is not worth the extra powder or reduced barrel life.

But some people just don't get that and you won't change their mind. A 7mag itself is overbore. A 7STW is up there with the RUM...a real barrel burner.

 

[Derek M.]

I would not be friend if I told somebody to buy an inferior caliber.

LOL. Well didn't you do just that? Isn't a 338 Edge a superior caliber to a 7STW? Isn't a 7RUM superior to the STW?? Doesn't a 300 RUM put a bigger hole and bullet in the elk?

Some friend you are!

 

[trueblue]

I get a kick out of how some members come across on some of these threads.
One thing I enjoy about this site is that 99% of the participants are respectful of the other guys opinion and give imformation with the intent to help the OP.

Keep up the good work, fellas.
Also, enjoy some of the members sense of humor.

As far as what to shoot, if you can't handle the recoil of the bigger 30's or 338's, shoot the 6.5 thru the 7 RM. Just run the #'s on the bullet/fps combination and see what your yardage linits are.
For example if you are shooting a 6.5-06AI or a 264 WM with the 140 Bergers at 3000fps + you theoretically could take an elk out to 1100 yards based on required 1800fps for the bullet to expand.
Or if you use 1500# of energy as your requirement, then your yardage limit would be about 700 yards, which really is farther than most elk are taken at anyway.

Bottom line is shoot what you can shoot accurately, but know your limits for the bullet you are using.

By the way,I also think this new 270 cal bullet from Berger is going to be interesting .

 

[shade mt]

having shot the various super mags and love them all. I will say with the proper bullet the 7mag will kill elk as far as anyone has any business killing one. Shooting paper or steel at 600 + yards is one thing..if you miss or your calculations off a bit..you adjust and shoot again..but with an animal ethics come into play. If your off a bit in your calculation for wind ect...it could very well mean a wounded animal..regardless of cal, energy and velocity are way down bullet expansion is not nearly so violent as closer ranges...wound channels less severe ect..WITH ALL CALIBERS !!...bullet placement is the key...not a bigger cal...if you really want big go .50 CAL....all joking aside a step up to the 300 mags or even a 338 cal...is worthless without proper bullet placement...and if you put the bullet where its supposed to be....well then i guess the 7mag would have worked after all..

 

[budlight]

LOL. Well didn't you do just that? Isn't a 338 Edge a superior caliber to a 7STW? Isn't a 7RUM superior to the STW?? Doesn't a 300 RUM put a bigger hole and bullet in the elk?

Some friend you are!

LOL back at you! After i bought the 7stw and have used it for years. later I felt the need for a cannon so I aquired a 30-378 with a 28 inch barrel. I shoot allot at the ranges and when it was in need of the third barrel I was considering modding it into a 338 -378. But instead i sold it with a couple hundred cases and all the hundreds of 210 -240 gr bullets and bought a 34 inch F class 338 lapua mag. I have never used it for big game hunting.

In march I'm doing a Texas pig hunt and taking the trusty .458 American loaded with 405 grain Barnes X and my 270 loaded with 150's both have 26 inch barrels and a hoot to shoot

I consider the 7RUM to be a barrel burner like the 30-378. I would call the 7stw as about the biggest non braked rifle for the typical hunter

 

[Derek M.]

When I was in TX in 2008, I shot hogs with my 270 and 110 TTSX bullets. Pigs just dropped. That's the only pig hunting I've done.

 

[Bravo 4]

I get a kick out of how some members come across on some of these threads.
One thing I enjoy about this site is that 99% of the participants are respectful of the other guys opinion and give imformation with the intent to help the OP.

Keep up the good work, fellas.
Also, enjoy some of the members sense of humor.

As far as what to shoot, if you can't handle the recoil of the bigger 30's or 338's, shoot the 6.5 thru the 7 RM. Just run the #'s on the bullet/fps combination and see what your yardage linits are.
For example if you are shooting a 6.5-06AI or a 264 WM with the 140 Bergers at 3000fps + you theoretically could take an elk out to 1100 yards based on required 1800fps for the bullet to expand.
Or if you use 1500# of energy as your requirement, then your yardage limit would be about 700 yards, which really is farther than most elk are taken at anyway.

Bottom line is shoot what you can shoot accurately, but know your limits for the bullet you are using.

Good post, I love this site. About the only one I visit, not just due to time. Lots of good folks with lots of experience.
I agree with you on the above. With the very (very) limited experience I have with elk I know that any caliber with a well consructed-well placed bullet will kill. But I have a tendency to be one of those "Go big or go home" type of guys, and after seeing what an elk can take and having the trophy deer
of my life stolen on public land. I want to knock the living crap out of pretty much everything I hunt now. For me to listen to guys telling hunters not to use a rifle capable of putting down an elephant at 1000 yards and then watching them drive away in $50,000 truck that takes them to the office and back seems hypocritical. Or somebody asking my buddy Keith why he wants to be able to benchpress over 600 pounds. This is what I told my wife several years ago when I volunteered for my second deployment to Iraq. She supported me but asked "Why would anybody WANT to do that?" and I replied "Honey, don't ever ask a man why he does the things he does...because he doesn't even know."

 

[OKIE2]

After reading all 6 pages of this makes me laugh to thank of how many elephants have been killed with the little 6.5x55 & the 7x57 for the last 100 years.