.264 Win Mag vs. 7mm Mag

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I have shot both the 264 winchester and the 7mm remington quite a bit for many years and own more than one of each now. I can give you five accuracy loads for the 264 winchester with the 140 berger over 3200 fps that are not overly hot loads. My accuracy load with the 130 swift is 3350 fps and again not to hot. When I say stuff on here it is with my guns and loads I have shot for years and have experience with. I am not going out trying to look up loads from somewhere. The ballistics at long range are better with the 264 winchester than the 7mm remington period. Fact not fiction with either the bergers or the swift. I have killed game over 1000 yards with both calibers and either will do the job. But the 264 has the least wind drift and flattest trajectory doing it if a guy wants to split hairs. When I have time I will post a JBM sheet for ny actual loads in each rifle then everyone can judge for themselves.

 

[cornstalker]

Run the numbers with 3200 fps for the 264 velocity using the best BC big game scirocco for the 264 and the SST for the 7mm. Compare drop, drift, and recoil. The 264 is it for me if my decision was between those!

I will run the numbers and check it out. Thanks.

I can give you five accuracy loads for the 264 winchester with the 140 berger over 3200 fps that are not overly hot loads.

I have no reason to doubt that, but the thread originator does not reload and will be using factory ammo. That is why I went and looked up data on different types of loaded ammo.

3350 with the 130 grain Scirocco makes me want to run out and by a .264. What a great combo.

When I have time I will post a JBM sheet for ny actual loads in each rifle then everyone can judge for themselves.

That would be awesome!
Thanks.

I still don't see where the 264 would be VASTLY superior to the 7mm RM, I figured we were picking the fly crap out of the pepper.
Perhaps the JBM sheets would help clear that up for me.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I assure you the 264 winchester is not vastly superior to the 7mm remington. I said splitting hairs because they are the excat same cartridge necked to different calibers. The only difference is the available bullets give the 264 a slight advantage if a guy wants to split hairs. I will get the jbm up on my actual loads when I have time. I agree his question was answered long ago but then he said he may start loading bullets and then this all started. I think with what he already has the 264 is a better choice.

Cornstalker, I will also try and get up the ballistics on my 264 STW. That is the one you want. It is amazing. We have more fun with that rifle than about anything on long range deer and antelope. 140 grainers over 3400 fps and the 130 swift at 3550 fps.

 

[Bully]

I assure you the 264 winchester is not vastly superior to the 7mm remington. I said splitting hairs because they are the excat same cartridge necked to different calibers. The only difference is the available bullets give the 264 a slight advantage if a guy wants to split hairs. I will get the jbm up on my actual loads when I have time. I agree his question was answered long ago but then he said he may start loading bullets and then this all started. I think with what he already has the 264 is a better choice.

Cornstalker, I will also try and get up the ballistics on my 264 STW. That is the one you want. It is amazing. We have more fun with that rifle than about anything on long range deer and antelope. 140 grainers over 3400 fps and the 130 swift at 3550 fps.

Hey Lone Ranger,as I said I love the 264 cal. I have a rem long action just sitting here and I'm thinking about trying a 264 STW,how do u like it and before I buy a barrel ,is there anything I need to know ?(ie: twist or barrel size)

 

[pyroducksx3]

I assure you the 264 winchester is not vastly superior to the 7mm remington. I said splitting hairs because they are the excat same cartridge necked to different calibers. The only difference is the available bullets give the 264 a slight advantage if a guy wants to split hairs. I will get the jbm up on my actual loads when I have time. I agree his question was answered long ago but then he said he may start loading bullets and then this all started. I think with what he already has the 264 is a better choice.

Cornstalker, I will also try and get up the ballistics on my 264 STW. That is the one you want. It is amazing. We have more fun with that rifle than about anything on long range deer and antelope. 140 grainers over 3400 fps and the 130 swift at 3550 fps.

This 6.5 stw is what Im interested in! I have a 7 rem mag but when the time comes to rebarrel Im interested in the 6.5 stw or the 6.5-300 win mag. Does anyone know how these two compare. Im interested in the 6.5-300 win mag just because you can get norma or rws brass for the 300 to neck down vs only nosler, winchester or remington for the 7 stw. But if the 6.5-300 cant even come close to the 6.5 stw I would have to stay with the stw. How does the recoil compare , assuming the same rifle weight/stock design, between the 6.5 stw with 130 gr sciraccos vs 7 rem mag using 150 gr scirraco?

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

You can get pac-nor to chamber you one and thread it for your rem 700 action. They do quality work. Mine are 1-9 twist and shoot both the 130 and 140 well. Berger recomends a 1-8 on there site but 1-9 works well with all bullets for me. For best performance I try and get the slowest twist that will stabilize the bullet. 1-9 is about as slow as you can go and still stabilize the 140 grain well for long range shooting.

One of mine is a 28" Pac-Nor #4 taper 1-9 twist. It shoots extremely well and I have made shots beyond 1500 yards with it. It is the best long range deer/antelope rifle I own. Run the ballistics on JBM for a 140 grain .612 bc at 3420 fps and the 130 swift .571 bc at 3550 fps and you can see how much fun this gun is to shoot. My rifles have several hundred rounds through them and still shoot very well. It is way overbore but if you take care of it and don't get the barrel hot it will last you for years as a hunting rifle. It is a hunting rifle and not a target rifle for shooting thousands of rounds through. I own virtually every top long range cartridge talked about regularly on this forum and this one is my favorite. It can be shot without a brake which makes it fun. It does well in a 26" carry rifle but if I was doing it as a long range weapon I would do a 28" or 30" heavy barrel version. It will reach further without the use of rails than about anything I know of out there. With mil dots and clicks you can reach well beyond 1000 yards without rails.

 

[Bully]

Lone ranger what kind of 140 gr bullets do you shoot. I been shooting Berger in my 264 win, but I hear over 3300 fps they don't do well? Do know anything about this?

 

[Firecat]

LT the STW sounds like a winner for sure. It's funny how your hand just seems to gravitate to certain rifles when you open the safe door. There are a few in my safe that get all of the attention and a few red headed step children. I may have to look into the 6.4 STW a little closer. Any thoughts on the 6.5-300 win?

 

[Scot E]

This is a good thread on the 6.5's and the 6.5/300 Win Mag. LTLR has a number of posts in this thread many of which talk about comparisons between cartridges.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/6-5mm-voodoo-unveiled-69499/

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

I do not own a 6.5-300 winchester. I have shot them and know guys who have owned them. All the ones I have seen shoot exactly between the 264 winchester and the 264 STW. So on average about 100 fps faster than the 264 winchester and 100 fps slower than the 264 STW. The beauty of the 6.5-300 winchester that most people like is that the 300 winchester is shorter and will fit on 30-06 length actions. In a full length magnum action you have more room to seat the long 140's out and still feed well. The STW is very long and makes a single shot in '06 length actions unless you do some modifications. Naturally it would be slightly easier on barrels. By how much I have no idea. Maybe 50 rounds or a hundred or so minimal that other factors would have more of an impact.

 

[meatyrem]

Just for clarification reasons, 264 stw is the same as 6.5mm stw?

 

[pyroducksx3]

Just for clarification reasons, 264 stw is the same as 6.5mm stw?

Yes as far as i know the 264 stw and 6.5 stw are the same thing.

So I was just running some numbers in the recoil calculator and compared the 7 rem mag 160 gr accubonds with 70 gr rl-25 at 3066 fps in an 8 lbs rifle and got like 23.59 lbs of recoil.

I ran the 6.5 stw with 130 gr using 80 gr of rl-25 at 3450 fps in an 8 lb rifle and it came out at 23.38 ft lbs of recoil!!
Have you run the number on a ballistic program between the 7 rem mag 160 accubonds at 3066 and the 6.5 stw using 130 gr sciracco II at 3450, holy crap! I cant wait to get the 6.5 stw I just got to shoot out my 7 rem barrel and its a done deal!

 

[Iron Worker]

I have a muzzle brake on my 7 WSM and it is miraculous in recoil reduction. Problem rifle sounds like an atom bomb when fired...... Out of my custom bbl I'm getting 7 STW velocities 70grs of Re#25 pushes a 168gr Berger VLD 3150 fps.

 

[pyroducksx3]

Well iron worker I really dont see how you are "safely" getting stw speeds out of a wsm but if it works for you great. That rig you have is an excellent performer. If you compare it to the 6.5 stw the stw still comes out with significant less drop 184.8 " vs your 7 wsm at 217.2 " at 1000, the wind is a wash th 6.5 at 55.7 vs the 7 at 57.4 and the 7 having about 140 more ft lbs of energy. But that is with the 7 using a berger and the 6.5 using a quality hunting bullet. If you were to compare the numbers using quality hunting bullets say 160 gr accubond the things are a little different
the 6.5 stw 130 gr sciracco II at 3450 fps
500 2589.0 1934.5 12.0 -26.0
550 2511.1 1819.8 14.7 -34.5
600 2434.5 1710.6 17.8 -44.3
650 2359.3 1606.5 21.1 -55.6
700 2285.4 1507.4 24.9 -68.5
750 2212.8 1413.1 29.0 -83.0
800 2141.4 1323.5 33.5 -99.3
850 2071.4 1238.3 38.4 -117.5
900 2002.7 1157.6 43.7 -137.7
950 1935.4 1081.1 49.5 -160.1
1000 1869.6 1008.8 55.7 -184.8

the 7 wsm ( I used stw velocities for you so this is at 3300 fps comapared to a wsm which normally should run more like 3000 fps) using 160 gr accubonds
500 2409.1 2061.6 13.8 -29.5
550 2328.8 1926.3 17.0 -39.1
600 2249.9 1798.1 20.5 -50.3
650 2172.5 1676.5 24.5 -63.3
700 2096.6 1561.5 28.9 -78.0
750 2022.3 1452.7 33.7 -94.8
800 1949.5 1350.1 39.0 -113.7
850 1878.5 1253.4 44.8 -134.9
900 1809.1 1162.5 51.2 -158.5
950 1741.5 1077.3 58.1 -184.8
1000 1675.9 997.6 65.5 -214.0

So if you used a normal velocity for the wsm the numbers would be even more seperated. You can see that the 6.5 stw has more energy less wind deflection, and significant less drop all with less recoil! I dont want a muzzlebreak so the 6.5 stw using these velocities should recoil no more than my 7 rem mag using 150 gr sciraccos. Now we could argue all day long about bullets and berger being or not being a good bullet, at over 300 yards or so the bergers are supposed to be fine, maybe the best there is?. I dont always know where my shots will be I dont set up for only long range shots so I choose a quality hunting bullet that will perform at any velocity and range, thats not a berger to me. Either way you are happy with your rifle/catridge selection and are confident with it and that a huge part of all this, I wish I could settle on something and just stick with it maybe the 6.5 stw will be it