7mm Elk Bullets- Berger Alternates

[southpa]

I, too, am not sure if he had any failures, but the OP noted,

If the OP is after the best bullet weight retention, fragmenting bullets or those designed to peel their petals are not the bullets he needs. What happens if it is a pass-through? Bullet weight retention is out the door. LL!

Agreed! It's so funny how everyone has different experiences than others. For some, bergers are lights out. For some, Hornady are lights out. The only projectiles I've seen that have consistently given poor results are coppers. Not always poor but consistently sub par for almist everyone I personally know.

 

[Hikinghunter]

Thanks all. Lots of good info here.

At the end of the day, I'll shoot whatever my rifle likes. With that said, I like a bullet that consistently passes through with a boring golf ball size exit wound. I'm new to elk hunting, but my experience using .243 on deer (which is probably proportional to using a 28nos on elk) led me away from "massive wound cavity" bullets like ballistic tips and eld-m's. Bergers website makes it sound like they're in the same category. It's like shooting something point blank with a shotgun. It would blow them off their feet, but often they would thrash around with broken bones and severed spinal cords, but only marginal penetration of the opposide side lungs. My good old interlocks just drilled a hole. The deer usually flinched, jogged 30-50 yards, then flopped over. Seems like a dependable, predictable way to do the job. Rapidly expanding bullets put more of them on the ground right where I shot em' but it took longer for them to die, and sometimes fragments went in weird places and ruined a lot of meat.

Sounds like eld-x and noslers are still the best for what I'm looking to do. Thanks for the suggestion to sort by ogive. I'll try that.

 

[SSG Graybush]

Interesting. Mono's for long distance?

It seems like ABLR's and ELD-X are optimal from a trade off of performance standpoint, but I was wondering if something better is out there.

7-800 yards max. 1:8.5 twist.

8.5T is gonna limit you. 180vld-h and 168 lrx are both out. You could try a 140 gr bd2, it has a .605 g1 bc, needs a 8.5T, so your good.

 

[Phil Rizzo]

8.5tw won't work with a .284 180gr vld-h?

 

[Hikinghunter]

8.5tw won't work with a .284 180gr vld-h?

This is being conserving with velocity. Likely I'd be about 200fps faster, so a little better SG.

Monos are another story..

 

[Phil Rizzo]

I ran it myself at sea level.
Bigger bullets need bigger cases!
I like longer barrels with em!

 

[southpa]

I don't understand how an 8.5 limits you....with the exception of a 195 you can run pretty much any berger heavy even at seas level and with conservative speeds like OP just said.

Also, didn't berger change the recommended twist rate for 195s to a 9? I have little experience with the 195 and the calculator says it won't work. But I have talked with several people who say you can twist 195s in an 8.5?

 

[FEENIX]

I don't understand how an 8.5 limits you....with the exception of a 195 you can run pretty much any berger heavy even at seas level and with conservative speeds like OP just said.

Also, didn't berger change the recommended twist rate for 195s to a 9? I have little experience with the 195 and the calculator says it won't work. But I have talked with several people who say you can twist 195s in an 8.5?

Yes, Sir, they did!

 

[Hand Skills]

Thanks all. Lots of good info here.

At the end of the day, I'll shoot whatever my rifle likes. With that said, I like a bullet that consistently passes through with a boring golf ball size exit wound. I'm new to elk hunting, but my experience using .243 on deer (which is probably proportional to using a 28nos on elk) led me away from "massive wound cavity" bullets like ballistic tips and eld-m's. Bergers website makes it sound like they're in the same category. It's like shooting something point blank with a shotgun. It would blow them off their feet, but often they would thrash around with broken bones and severed spinal cords, but only marginal penetration of the opposide side lungs. My good old interlocks just drilled a hole. The deer usually flinched, jogged 30-50 yards, then flopped over. Seems like a dependable, predictable way to do the job. Rapidly expanding bullets put more of them on the ground right where I shot em' but it took longer for them to die, and sometimes fragments went in weird places and ruined a lot of meat.

Sounds like eld-x and noslers are still the best for what I'm looking to do. Thanks for the suggestion to sort by ogive. I'll try that.

Bullet performance is dependent on design, yes, but it also changes with impact velocity.

I get the sense that your criticisms here relate to 'normal' range hunting, yet on the first page you answered '700-800yds'.

Meat waste is mainly a shot placement thing but
Yes, shoot a soft bullet at high velocity, and it can make a real mess up close.

On impacts above 3000fps, that's where some of the new generation monos really shine.

Under 2400fps, Cup and Core is really in its element.

Its about picking the right tool for the job. Some guys understand this and carry two different loads - one for close and one for far.

Like @dogz said - put the bullet in a good spot, and good things happen.

Hit the spine with speed, and yer goona mess up some backstrap.

In the past, when hunting for meat, I've passed up on quartering shots that looked like I might poke the guts or blow up a shoulder.

I've seen an Elk shoulder catch a .338 225gr ELD-X. CATCH - meaning it never made it through the ribs and into the vitals.

From what I have seen personally, and what's been shared on this site, I feel ELD-Xs are MORE explosive than Berger's.

Ultimately, I believe bullets that are good for up close are not good for distance. Bullets built for LR have some tradeoffs when used in close. Explosive performance can be mitigated with shot placement (i.e. shoot ribs in ribs out)

As I suggested in post #2, if looking for a bullet that performs from 0-1000, there are goona be some trade offs.

I like having the ability to reach out, but also acknowledge that statistically my 'average' shot on big game is about 150yds, so I choose accordingly.

Good luck with your choice, and happy shooting

 

[Hikinghunter]

I get the sense that your criticisms here relate to 'normal' range hunting, yet on the first page you answered '700-800yds'.

Meat waste is mainly a shot placement thing but
Yes, shoot a soft bullet at high velocity, and it can make a real mess up close.

From what I have seen personally, and what's been shared on this site, I feel ELD-Xs are MORE explosive than Berger's.

The poor experiences were with SST's at 300 to 400 yards. Even at 2000fps, you'd find fragments a foot away from the entry point, lots of mess inside, and no exit. Perhaps Berger's are less dramatic. It may not be fair to put bergers and SST's in the same basket just because they claim to create "massive shock".

Good idea keeping a mono on hand for close shots. That could certainly be a work-around.

 

[std7mag]

Thanks all. Lots of good info here.

At the end of the day, I'll shoot whatever my rifle likes. With that said, I like a bullet that consistently passes through with a boring golf ball size exit wound. I'm new to elk hunting, but my experience using .243 on deer (which is probably proportional to using a 28nos on elk) led me away from "massive wound cavity" bullets like ballistic tips and eld-m's. Bergers website makes it sound like they're in the same category. It's like shooting something point blank with a shotgun. It would blow them off their feet, but often they would thrash around with broken bones and severed spinal cords, but only marginal penetration of the opposide side lungs. My good old interlocks just drilled a hole. The deer usually flinched, jogged 30-50 yards, then flopped over. Seems like a dependable, predictable way to do the job. Rapidly expanding bullets put more of them on the ground right where I shot em' but it took longer for them to die, and sometimes fragments went in weird places and ruined a lot of meat.

Sounds like eld-x and noslers are still the best for what I'm looking to do. Thanks for the suggestion to sort by ogive. I'll try that.

When a 243 Win is all you need.

 

[dieseldoc]

Botton line its shot placement!!!!

 

[cajun]

Bullet performance is dependent on design, yes, but it also changes with impact velocity.

I get the sense that your criticisms here relate to 'normal' range hunting, yet on the first page you answered '700-800yds'.

Meat waste is mainly a shot placement thing but
Yes, shoot a soft bullet at high velocity, and it can make a real mess up close.

On impacts above 3000fps, that's where some of the new generation monos really shine.

Under 2400fps, Cup and Core is really in its element.

Its about picking the right tool for the job. Some guys understand this and carry two different loads - one for close and one for far.

Like @dogz said - put the bullet in a good spot, and good things happen.

Hit the spine with speed, and yer goona mess up some backstrap.

In the past, when hunting for meat, I've passed up on quartering shots that looked like I might poke the guts or blow up a shoulder.

I've seen an Elk shoulder catch a .338 225gr ELD-X. CATCH - meaning it never made it through the ribs and into the vitals.

From what I have seen personally, and what's been shared on this site, I feel ELD-Xs are MORE explosive than Berger's.

Ultimately, I believe bullets that are good for up close are not good for distance. Bullets built for LR have some tradeoffs when used in close. Explosive performance can be mitigated with shot placement (i.e. shoot ribs in ribs out)

As I suggested in post #2, if looking for a bullet that performs from 0-1000, there are goona be some trade offs.

I like having the ability to reach out, but also acknowledge that statistically my 'average' shot on big game is about 150yds, so I choose accordingly.

Good luck with your choice, and happy shooting

So a 225 grain bullet did not penetrate the rib cage? What was the distance and velocity?

 

[Hand Skills]

Correct. Verified on recovery... Some people keep shooting until they are down I guess

Range was just over 100, impact vel 2600ish.