7mm build

[johnlittletree]

The minimum cartridge size in my opinion would be the 280 AI and go up from there for the heavy 7mm bullets. The middle of the road choice would be a 7mm STW On the big end the 7 RUM would be my top choice. There are other choices but you would have to decide which one based on your needs/wants.

Just My opinion

J E CUSTOM

I like the 280 idea but the AI part that is not remotely a good idea in 2018 almost 2019. That would be like recommending a magneto system and Holly carburetor on a daily driver in a cold climate in 2018. In 2018 nothing is a bigger waste of resources for a modern rifle especially for hunting than AI modifications. We have too many cases to choose from today we have no need to do the AI thing. Are you trying to be romantic or just too old and too in love with AI cases.

In fact with today's powders if you did a head to head using modern powders in a standard 280 and did an AI using only powder and bullet designs that Ackley had available when he developed his modified cartridge the standard 280 with modern hi end powders bullets would win. Just because something is old and requires a lot of tinkering to get right does not make it a good thing!

If he is building a rifle from scratch and is not limited to 280 and it is not powerful enough the next logical step is not AI it is a larger standard cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag just as an example. If he does not want a belt than doing with a 7mm what we do with the 338 Edge would likewise make sense. Life is too short to spend all your free time modifying when you do not have to.

I do not understand why so many people on this sight can not bring themselves to exercise logic, math and science and use readily available cartridges that a proven to do the job.

I know I say this often but you usually can not hunt international with wildcats because the rifle has to be proofed and the head stamp on the brass has to match the chambering. Since ZERO brass comes head stamped in AI cartridges that is that. On top of that but the same holds true for competition in many countries.

7mm STW was kind of a joke 20 years ago because it burns through barrels and powder in a hurry. I guess if you need to shoot a deer or Elk 2 miles away it might be useful! LOL It is kind of like putting a V8 in a riding lawn mower you can do it but it makes no sense! It amazes me that for the last 200 years people have harvested animals for food with out AI cartridges for the most part and made war with their neighbors again nothing as silly as AI cartridges! LOL

If you look at what has harvested the most medium to large game in the last 100 years in North America it not going to be a boutique cartridge. It would be 30-06, 308, 30-30, 270, 338 Win Mag, 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55, 243, 25-06, 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm-08, 350 Rem Mag, 458 Lott, 35 Whelen. Barring the 458 Lott and the 35 Whelen you can buy the above at Walmart, KMart, Meijers most gas stations in the middle of no where so long as you have farming and hunters coming through.

In the last 30 years so many cartridges have been developed that it truly is silly to do an AI today. Do you guys get points or pats on the back for killing a beast with a more obscure cartridge or having a rifle that no one wants because it is manual case prep, fire forming and reloading only? If that is the case you guys should maybe do an AI version of a 10.15x61mmR. Now if you can shoot Prong Horn or Elk at 1000m with that that would be impressive!LOL

I am just glad Mr. P.O. Ackley left the 45-70 alone and the 22LR and 22 Short alone! You would think that if his idea's whee so great more of his cartridges would have been made into standards instead of remaining Wild Cat's.

 

[WildRose]

I like the 280 idea but the AI part that is not remotely a good idea in 2018 almost 2019. That would be like recommending a magneto system and Holly carburetor on a daily driver in a cold climate in 2018. In 2018 nothing is a bigger waste of resources for a modern rifle especially for hunting than AI modifications. We have too many cases to choose from today we have no need to do the AI thing. Are you trying to be romantic or just too old and too in love with AI cases.

In fact with today's powders if you did a head to head using modern powders in a standard 280 and did an AI using only powder and bullet designs that Ackley had available when he developed his modified cartridge the standard 280 with modern hi end powders bullets would win. Just because something is old and requires a lot of tinkering to get right does not make it a good thing!

If he is building a rifle from scratch and is not limited to 280 and it is not powerful enough the next logical step is not AI it is a larger standard cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag just as an example. If he does not want a belt than doing with a 7mm what we do with the 338 Edge would likewise make sense. Life is too short to spend all your free time modifying when you do not have to.

I do not understand why so many people on this sight can not bring themselves to exercise logic, math and science and use readily available cartridges that a proven to do the job.

I know I say this often but you usually can not hunt international with wildcats because the rifle has to be proofed and the head stamp on the brass has to match the chambering. Since ZERO brass comes head stamped in AI cartridges that is that. On top of that but the same holds true for competition in many countries.

7mm STW was kind of a joke 20 years ago because it burns through barrels and powder in a hurry. I guess if you need to shoot a deer or Elk 2 miles away it might be useful! LOL It is kind of like putting a V8 in a riding lawn mower you can do it but it makes no sense! It amazes me that for the last 200 years people have harvested animals for food with out AI cartridges for the most part and made war with their neighbors again nothing as silly as AI cartridges! LOL

If you look at what has harvested the most medium to large game in the last 100 years in North America it not going to be a boutique cartridge. It would be 30-06, 308, 30-30, 270, 338 Win Mag, 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55, 243, 25-06, 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm-08, 350 Rem Mag, 458 Lott, 35 Whelen. Barring the 458 Lott and the 35 Whelen you can buy the above at Walmart, KMart, Meijers most gas stations in the middle of no where so long as you have farming and hunters coming through.

In the last 30 years so many cartridges have been developed that it truly is silly to do an AI today. Do you guys get points or pats on the back for killing a beast with a more obscure cartridge or having a rifle that no one wants because it is manual case prep, fire forming and reloading only? If that is the case you guys should maybe do an AI version of a 10.15x61mmR. Now if you can shoot Prong Horn or Elk at 1000m with that that would be impressive!LOL

I am just glad Mr. P.O. Ackley left the 45-70 alone and the 22LR and 22 Short alone! You would think that if his idea's whee so great more of his cartridges would have been made into standards instead of remaining Wild Cat's.

Comparing the .280 shooting modern powders and the .280 shooting only powders available fifty years ago is in no way a reasonable or fair comparison. We're not living fifty years ago.

All modern firearms today can be loaded with powders we have today and that's the only honest way to compare them.

As for the STW I have three of them, the oldest is a 1992 model with closing in on 2000rds on the original barrel and it still shoots half MOA if I do my part. Don't shoot one hot and keep shooting, keep your shot strings to three or less and let it cool down in between and don't shoot the hottest load you can shoot through them and they will last longer than most hunters.

Go bigger than the STW and the little that is gained comes at a huge cost in barrel life, powder, muzzle blast, and recoil and yes Virginia you can still buy factor ammo for it.

 

[Capt RB]

I like the 280 idea but the AI part that is not remotely a good idea in 2018 almost 2019. That would be like recommending a magneto system and Holly carburetor on a daily driver in a cold climate in 2018. In 2018 nothing is a bigger waste of resources for a modern rifle especially for hunting than AI modifications. We have too many cases to choose from today we have no need to do the AI thing. Are you trying to be romantic or just too old and too in love with AI cases.

In fact with today's powders if you did a head to head using modern powders in a standard 280 and did an AI using only powder and bullet designs that Ackley had available when he developed his modified cartridge the standard 280 with modern hi end powders bullets would win. Just because something is old and requires a lot of tinkering to get right does not make it a good thing!

If he is building a rifle from scratch and is not limited to 280 and it is not powerful enough the next logical step is not AI it is a larger standard cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag just as an example. If he does not want a belt than doing with a 7mm what we do with the 338 Edge would likewise make sense. Life is too short to spend all your free time modifying when you do not have to.

I do not understand why so many people on this sight can not bring themselves to exercise logic, math and science and use readily available cartridges that a proven to do the job.

I know I say this often but you usually can not hunt international with wildcats because the rifle has to be proofed and the head stamp on the brass has to match the chambering. Since ZERO brass comes head stamped in AI cartridges that is that. On top of that but the same holds true for competition in many countries.

7mm STW was kind of a joke 20 years ago because it burns through barrels and powder in a hurry. I guess if you need to shoot a deer or Elk 2 miles away it might be useful! LOL It is kind of like putting a V8 in a riding lawn mower you can do it but it makes no sense! It amazes me that for the last 200 years people have harvested animals for food with out AI cartridges for the most part and made war with their neighbors again nothing as silly as AI cartridges! LOL

If you look at what has harvested the most medium to large game in the last 100 years in North America it not going to be a boutique cartridge. It would be 30-06, 308, 30-30, 270, 338 Win Mag, 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55, 243, 25-06, 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm-08, 350 Rem Mag, 458 Lott, 35 Whelen. Barring the 458 Lott and the 35 Whelen you can buy the above at Walmart, KMart, Meijers most gas stations in the middle of no where so long as you have farming and hunters coming through.

In the last 30 years so many cartridges have been developed that it truly is silly to do an AI today. Do you guys get points or pats on the back for killing a beast with a more obscure cartridge or having a rifle that no one wants because it is manual case prep, fire forming and reloading only? If that is the case you guys should maybe do an AI version of a 10.15x61mmR. Now if you can shoot Prong Horn or Elk at 1000m with that that would be impressive!LOL

I am just glad Mr. P.O. Ackley left the 45-70 alone and the 22LR and 22 Short alone! You would think that if his idea's whee so great more of his cartridges would have been made into standards instead of remaining Wild Cat's.

The 280 AI is a factory supported cartridge. It will do for a handloader what a box ammo 7mag shooter gets for performance. You get 5 in the magazine instead of 3.
.338Edge why? because the factories built the 338 rum with the wrong dimensions.
Ackley Improved biggest benefit is case stability. You also see less bolt thrust from the straighter case. Throat erosion is also reduced in a measurable way in most of the overbore standard cartridges in your list.
Apparently you don't see the benefits wildcating has done for the shooting world.
The Rum's the Noslers the Ruger cartridges as well as the wsm's and saums are all here because of wildcatters. Most of those shooters started with the ai version of what they though was a good cartridge. I was shooting a 7/300RCM before I saw my first box of 300rcm in a store. That rifle was a test mule for a man who is still building them. He had the 6.5 version 10 years ago. He has a 6mm version as well.
Do you think the 6.5-300 wby was the brain child of the Weatherby ownership?
Do you think the 30-378 was?
You railed against a carburetor and magneto thinking your computer controlled car is infallible. 1 well placed earth magnet would change that. Maybe your car gets hacked and your brakes don't work. The new computer controlled diesel are great when they work. When they decide to take dump That 149.00 fuel pump in that 8/92 detriot is 15600 in that same horsepower Mann. How do I know? My owner/boss replaced both last spring for 43K. We had fuel issues that cost us 2 tournaments this summer. After spending the 43K. All season we had techs up from Ct @ 170hr. They fixed it for the run back to Florida for the winter. Boat sat 2 wks and the same issues returned. It will end up being quite expensive as compared to what the fuel pumps cost last spring. Had it been a detriot I could have rebuild both engines completely while still in the boat myself for the cost of those fuel pumps never mind the labor.
If you don't like people that enjoy tinkering that's fine. It is people that do that that give you the better options you think you have today.
The sherman line of cartridges are a perfect example. His SS line now has brass head stamped. The fruit of his wildcating labor is bringing a superior product to market. It started for him with a wildcat then an ai version then his version.
To date the 6.5/06 is still a wildcat.
The 6.5 creedmore wouldn't exist if David Tubb didn't design the 6XC and give a case to D. Demille in 06 looking for a brass source.

 

[J E Custom]

I like the 280 idea but the AI part that is not remotely a good idea in 2018 almost 2019. That would be like recommending a magneto system and Holly carburetor on a daily driver in a cold climate in 2018. In 2018 nothing is a bigger waste of resources for a modern rifle especially for hunting than AI modifications. We have too many cases to choose from today we have no need to do the AI thing. Are you trying to be romantic or just too old and too in love with AI cases.

In fact with today's powders if you did a head to head using modern powders in a standard 280 and did an AI using only powder and bullet designs that Ackley had available when he developed his modified cartridge the standard 280 with modern hi end powders bullets would win. Just because something is old and requires a lot of tinkering to get right does not make it a good thing!

If he is building a rifle from scratch and is not limited to 280 and it is not powerful enough the next logical step is not AI it is a larger standard cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag just as an example. If he does not want a belt than doing with a 7mm what we do with the 338 Edge would likewise make sense. Life is too short to spend all your free time modifying when you do not have to.

I do not understand why so many people on this sight can not bring themselves to exercise logic, math and science and use readily available cartridges that a proven to do the job.

I know I say this often but you usually can not hunt international with wildcats because the rifle has to be proofed and the head stamp on the brass has to match the chambering. Since ZERO brass comes head stamped in AI cartridges that is that. On top of that but the same holds true for competition in many countries.

7mm STW was kind of a joke 20 years ago because it burns through barrels and powder in a hurry. I guess if you need to shoot a deer or Elk 2 miles away it might be useful! LOL It is kind of like putting a V8 in a riding lawn mower you can do it but it makes no sense! It amazes me that for the last 200 years people have harvested animals for food with out AI cartridges for the most part and made war with their neighbors again nothing as silly as AI cartridges! LOL

If you look at what has harvested the most medium to large game in the last 100 years in North America it not going to be a boutique cartridge. It would be 30-06, 308, 30-30, 270, 338 Win Mag, 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55, 243, 25-06, 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm-08, 350 Rem Mag, 458 Lott, 35 Whelen. Barring the 458 Lott and the 35 Whelen you can buy the above at Walmart, KMart, Meijers most gas stations in the middle of no where so long as you have farming and hunters coming through.

In the last 30 years so many cartridges have been developed that it truly is silly to do an AI today. Do you guys get points or pats on the back for killing a beast with a more obscure cartridge or having a rifle that no one wants because it is manual case prep, fire forming and reloading only? If that is the case you guys should maybe do an AI version of a 10.15x61mmR. Now if you can shoot Prong Horn or Elk at 1000m with that that would be impressive!LOL

I am just glad Mr. P.O. Ackley left the 45-70 alone and the 22LR and 22 Short alone! You would think that if his idea's whee so great more of his cartridges would have been made into standards instead of remaining Wild Cat's.

I realy like your post and point of view "BUT", P O Ackley did us all a favor when he started looking at ways to improve cartridges to get more all round performance from them.

His ideas were innovative and I would consider him the father of most modern cartridge designs of today. His shoulder design was an attempt to increase the performance in many ways with very few changes/cost. It is still a good way and allows a wider range of use. An example of this would be the 280 that you mentioned. If the 280 AI chamber is set up the way Ackley intended it to be, you can shoot standard 280 ammo with great accuracy and fire form at the same time. Then if you want more performance, load the 280 AI cases to their potential (It can match the ballistics of the 7mm rem mag with less powder) Less powder for the same velocity means less barrel wear in the throat where it normally occurs first.

The reason is simple, the shoulder design is more efficient at burring the powder and also it is easier on the cases. (Less stretch). most all modern bench rest cartridges utilize some form of his design and most high performance cartridges do also. I have not seen a newly designed cartridge that uses a 20 to 25o shoulder.they are all 30o+.

Ackley did his testing because of the components and the cartridges of the time and there performance. now that we have all of these new powders and bullets to choose from, we can take advantage of his design even more so. You are also correct that we do have so many cartridges to chose from that the AI may not be necessary in many cases, But if you already have a fine rifle in a caliber that AIs well,
it is a great way to increase the performance of an already good cartridge without building or buying a new rifle.

Re chambering to an AI doesn't automatically double the velocity. It increases the velocity by a percentage and improves case life by a huge margin over some cartridges. and some times matches the performance to a level of the next choice Like the 7 rem mag.

As to the 280 to the 280 AI comparison, I have built and fired many 280 Remington's and the same loads in the AI versions and the velocity always goes up with the AI chamber, this proves to me that there is something to the design. You mentioned the 45/70 and My comment with out being harsh is that straight sided cases "CANT" be Ackley Improved unless you reduce the caliber.

Again, your post and point of view is good, but some things will only improve total performance without sacrificing anything, so some like me will always see the advantages in design improvements and move in that direction.

I only quoted your post so people could see both points of view and not to start an argument. They can decide which way they lean.

J E CUSTOM

 

[1973doc]

I'm not a fan of the 7mm, but if you go with the 7mm ultra or the 7mm STW you till have more versatility. Great choice with the proof barrel.

 

[highdrum]

I'd stay away from the RUM & STW cases due to coal with heavy bullets. If you want a large capacity 7mm that will load easy in a regular wyatt's box and still get max fps, go 28 nosler, if you want cheap brass, go 7mm-300 win mag. Both cartridges will push 180s 3100-3200fps and 195s 3000-3100fps. The RUM isn't hardly any faster unless you step up to 30"+ barrel. The STW is a good design, it's just been replaced by noslers shorter larger diameter case which makes it much easier to seat bullets properly in a Magnum long action.

 

[coyotezapper]

No, according to the drawing the neck is .118 longer than .264.

The shoulder is also pushed back .211 and the angle is changed from 60 deg to 30 deg.

Compare the parent case to the 7LRM.

The neck is much longer, less capacity, the shoulder is bumped back considerably, less capacity.

Now if you like I can fill a case full of powder for each and weigh it out if you really want to know exactly how much difference there is but even a couple of grains could make a significant difference in performance.

What case are you talking about?? Compare what case to 7LRM?? Also, 7mm is .284 not .264.

 

[coyotezapper]

Johnlittletree,

So, if todays powders make the 280 better would it not also make the 280AI better?

What tinkering is required on AI cartridges?

280AI is standardized.
https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Z299-4_ANSI-SAAMI_CFR.pdf

Every cartridge recommendation on the site is subjective so what makes your opinions any more valid?

 

[coyotezapper]

I'd stay away from the RUM & STW cases due to coal with heavy bullets. If you want a large capacity 7mm that will load easy in a regular wyatt's box and still get max fps, go 28 nosler, if you want cheap brass, go 7mm-300 win mag. Both cartridges will push 180s 3100-3200fps and 195s 3000-3100fps. The RUM isn't hardly any faster unless you step up to 30"+ barrel. The STW is a good design, it's just been replaced by noslers shorter larger diameter case which makes it much easier to seat bullets properly in a Magnum long action.

I ran two STW's right alongside two RUM's for 10ish years. With the heavy bullets - 180''s and up the Rum was always faster by a fair amount with 24-26" bbls. This is with pressure tested loads.

 

[highdrum]

I ran two STW's right alongside two RUM's for 10ish years. With the heavy bullets - 180''s and up the Rum was always faster by a fair amount with 24-26" bbls. This is with pressure tested loads.

Rum should outrun a stw, it has 10gr larger case capacity. Build a stw or rum that'll push 195s @ 3150fps and still feed well as a repeater in a bdl bottom metal with bullets seated properly........wont happen. 28 nosler does just that. It's the same mouse trap put into a much more marketable and easy to build right setup. 7mm rum with a 195 seated with boat tail at base of neck is over 4" coal. Good luck with that. It's a performer but not practical and the nosler case will run within 50fps of it at 3.7" coal. It doesn't make senae to go rum or stw, especially since components are so limited for basically all 3 cases, but the nosler is gaining a lot of support for peterson & adg bringing brass out. It won't die as the 33 & 26 will, the 30 nosler may stick around however mine became a 300 norma.

 

[coyotezapper]

Rum should outrun a stw, it has 10gr larger case capacity. Build a stw or rum that'll push 195s @ 3150fps and still feed well as a repeater in a bdl bottom metal with bullets seated properly........wont happen. 28 nosler does just that. It's the same mouse trap put into a much more marketable and easy to build right setup. 7mm rum with a 195 seated with boat tail at base of neck is over 4" coal. Good luck with that. It's a performer but not practical and the nosler case will run within 50fps of it at 3.7" coal. It doesn't make senae to go rum or stw, especially since components are so limited for basically all 3 cases, but the nosler is gaining a lot of support for peterson & adg bringing brass out. It won't die as the 33 & 26 will, the 30 nosler may stick around however mine became a 300 norma.

14ish grs more than the 28N, but who is counting. I have moved away from the RUM but I don't remember having an issue with my magazine lengths but I mostly shot 180-190's and the 195's are relatively new. I shot the first barrel out before the 195 was even on the market and only just dabbled with the 195 before selling the re-barreled RUM. I never claimed it was more practical but that is subjective anyway. Its ok if some chooses whatever chambering whether it makes sense to you or anyone else. I have one 28N left and no STW's but my favorite 7mm's are 7RM, 7-08, 7-08AI and 7SAUM in no particular order.

 

[jda2631]

It won't die as the 33 & 26 will, the 30 nosler may stick around however mine became a 300 norma.

I think the 30 stays around because it uses the standard magnum bolt face, where the 300 norma uses the larger lapua bolt face. Just easier/more common to get an action with the magnum bolt face.

I would love to get a 300 norma barrel for my big horn, but they don't offer the bolt head for it. So I will probably decide between 300wm, 30 nosler, and possibly 300prc (I still dont know much about this cartridge).

 

[MudRunner2005]

I like the 280 idea but the AI part that is not remotely a good idea in 2018 almost 2019. That would be like recommending a magneto system and Holly carburetor on a daily driver in a cold climate in 2018. In 2018 nothing is a bigger waste of resources for a modern rifle especially for hunting than AI modifications. We have too many cases to choose from today we have no need to do the AI thing. Are you trying to be romantic or just too old and too in love with AI cases.

In fact with today's powders if you did a head to head using modern powders in a standard 280 and did an AI using only powder and bullet designs that Ackley had available when he developed his modified cartridge the standard 280 with modern hi end powders bullets would win. Just because something is old and requires a lot of tinkering to get right does not make it a good thing!

If he is building a rifle from scratch and is not limited to 280 and it is not powerful enough the next logical step is not AI it is a larger standard cartridge like the 7mm Rem Mag just as an example. If he does not want a belt than doing with a 7mm what we do with the 338 Edge would likewise make sense. Life is too short to spend all your free time modifying when you do not have to.

I do not understand why so many people on this sight can not bring themselves to exercise logic, math and science and use readily available cartridges that a proven to do the job.

I know I say this often but you usually can not hunt international with wildcats because the rifle has to be proofed and the head stamp on the brass has to match the chambering. Since ZERO brass comes head stamped in AI cartridges that is that. On top of that but the same holds true for competition in many countries.

7mm STW was kind of a joke 20 years ago because it burns through barrels and powder in a hurry. I guess if you need to shoot a deer or Elk 2 miles away it might be useful! LOL It is kind of like putting a V8 in a riding lawn mower you can do it but it makes no sense! It amazes me that for the last 200 years people have harvested animals for food with out AI cartridges for the most part and made war with their neighbors again nothing as silly as AI cartridges! LOL

If you look at what has harvested the most medium to large game in the last 100 years in North America it not going to be a boutique cartridge. It would be 30-06, 308, 30-30, 270, 338 Win Mag, 8mm Mauser, 7mm Mauser, 6.5x55, 243, 25-06, 300 Win Mag, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm-08, 350 Rem Mag, 458 Lott, 35 Whelen. Barring the 458 Lott and the 35 Whelen you can buy the above at Walmart, KMart, Meijers most gas stations in the middle of no where so long as you have farming and hunters coming through.

In the last 30 years so many cartridges have been developed that it truly is silly to do an AI today. Do you guys get points or pats on the back for killing a beast with a more obscure cartridge or having a rifle that no one wants because it is manual case prep, fire forming and reloading only? If that is the case you guys should maybe do an AI version of a 10.15x61mmR. Now if you can shoot Prong Horn or Elk at 1000m with that that would be impressive!LOL

I am just glad Mr. P.O. Ackley left the 45-70 alone and the 22LR and 22 Short alone! You would think that if his idea's whee so great more of his cartridges would have been made into standards instead of remaining Wild Cat's.

Wow, you are so misguided on so many opinions, I don't know where to start.

I guess I'll start with the STW comment... There's guys getting well over 1,000 rounds of barrel life out of their STW's. One of mine has around 750, and after scoping it, it appears to have virtually no wear on the throat and rifling.

Why would you compare a .280 Rem with modern components to a .280 AI with components from 70 years ago? That would be like buying a new Corvette, and then putting wooden wagon wheels on it... That just proves that you KNOW you're wrong about AI cartridges, because if you can't do a true apples-to-apples comparison, you're trying to stack your deck in favor of your opinion.

Now, your opinion about Ackley's ideas not being so great, explain to me how the .280 AI is more popular than the .280 Remington for the last 20+ years?

Also, the only way to AI a .45-70 is to put the .45 bullet in a longer case that holds more powder. Oh wait, they did that back in the 1800's!!! .45-90, .45-110, .45-120, etc... So, yeah, they were "AI'ing" cartridges before Ackley was born.

Also, how in the hell would you AI a .22LR or a .22 Short? They're rimfires...One and done. And if you want to get technical, he did AI the centerfire .22's, like the .22 Ackley Hornet based off the .22 Hornet case.

 

[MudRunner2005]

I think the 30 stays around because it uses the standard magnum bolt face, where the 300 norma uses the larger lapua bolt face. Just easier/more common to get an action with the magnum bolt face.

I would love to get a 300 norma barrel for my big horn, but they don't offer the bolt head for it. So I will probably decide between 300wm, 30 nosler, and possibly 300prc (I still dont know much about this cartridge).

It is a lot more common to find a used RUM action (needed for the Noslers) than to find a used Lapua or Norma action.