600 yard ladder or 100 yard groups?

[Trm82]

How?

Because I've had loads that shot almost one hole at 100 yards and about 4" at 200 and 8" at 300 yards example 95 gr berger vld in a 1-10 twist barrel 243 win. They wouldn't stabilize.
So I believe 200 yards gives you a much better idea of what a bullet is going to do.
Plus every rifle I own has a 200 yard zero anyways.

 

[Georgiashooter]

Just as trm82 says, I've had loads that shoot phenomenal at 100, only to come unglued at 300+. Built a 280 AI that had an sd of 7, very good at 100, about moa at 300. So I started doing load work at 300. I seem to concentrate better at long range. Just works for me, not everyone.

 

[xarcher]

Tag

 

[FNA3G]

Because I've had loads that shot almost one hole at 100 yards and about 4" at 200 and 8" at 300 yards example 95 gr berger vld in a 1-10 twist barrel 243 win. They wouldn't stabilize.
So I believe 200 yards gives you a much better idea of what a bullet is going to do.
Plus every rifle I own has a 200 yard zero anyways.

I highly doubt the load will CONSISTENTLY shoot one hole at 100yds just to turn into 4" at 200. Keyword being consistently one hole, multiple groups at 100, I dont doubt you could have had a single group go one hole. I have never seen something this drastic that wasnt related to a problem other than just a bad load. If this was indeed the case then its an exception and not the norm so I still see no reason to do the load workup at a distance greater than 100.

 

[StanB]

I agree I did shoot 30 rounds and definitely could have been a lot more efficient about it. I was waiting for my scope to arrive and was really bored to be honest so I just wanted to do something to get the load development started.

We don't buy them to look at them....mostly...

 

[Trm82]

I highly doubt the load will CONSISTENTLY shoot one hole at 100yds just to turn into 4" at 200. Keyword being consistently one hole, multiple groups at 100, I dont doubt you could have had a single group go one hole. I have never seen something this drastic that wasnt related to a problem other than just a bad load. If this was indeed the case then its an exception and not the norm so I still see no reason to do the load workup at a distance greater than 100.

Well I shot that load a few times and at 100 yards with the same results. Basically one hole. I shared my loaded with a friend which had the same gun (243 tikka t3 ) and he too had the same results as I had with the exact same load and once we shot past 100 yards to 200 and 300 the results were almost identical.
So about consistency I think your wrong . It wasn't just a fluke that two different shooters with two different guns had the same results. I would say that's consistent.
If a Bullet is not stable this will happen and shooting at 200+ tells me that info and I don't end up getting excited about a load that is less than 1/4 moa at 100 yards to be disappointed once I shoot it farther out.
I have had this go the other way to.
My personal preference is to have a gun shoot 1" at 200 yards but have had guns shoot 1.5"@ 200 every time and would consistently be 1/2 moa to 825 yards.
So for me 200 yards tells me a lot more than 100 yards so I develop all loads at 200 and then if it shows promise I shoot out from there.

If you want to shoot 100 yard development go ahead.

 

[FNA3G]

Well I shot that load a few times and at 100 yards with the same results. Basically one hole. I shared my loaded with a friend which had the same gun (243 tikka t3 ) and he too had the same results as I had with the exact same load and once we shot past 100 yards to 200 and 300 the results were almost identical.
So about consistency I think your wrong . It wasn't just a fluke that two different shooters with two different guns had the same results. I would say that's consistent.
If a Bullet is not stable this will happen and shooting at 200+ tells me that info and I don't end up getting excited about a load that is less than 1/4 moa at 100 yards to be disappointed once I shoot it farther out.
I have had this go the other way to.
My personal preference is to have a gun shoot 1" at 200 yards but have had guns shoot 1.5"@ 200 every time and would consistently be 1/2 moa to 825 yards.
So for me 200 yards tells me a lot more than 100 yards so I develop all loads at 200 and then if it shows promise I shoot out from there.

If you want to shoot 100 yard development go ahead.

Ive got no reason not to believe you, I will take your word for it. Ive just never seen a bullet be stabalized well enough at 100yds to group within 1/4 MOA to then take a hard left or right and come unglued at 200. But If you were shooting a bullet that you know was not recommended for your twist and would likely result in issues, why change how you test a load (dont test at 100 now because of what you seen in this example) to catch something you knew could/would happen?

 

[gohring3006]

The only time I do load development farther than 100 yards, is when I don't have a Chrony with me. Like maybe I forgot it, or battery is dead. I'll look for vertical and it shows better at distance.
As far as stability, you can have marginally stabile bullets group very well at all distances. SG will actually increase with range, so the whole stability thing has to be examined closely before assuming that's the problem.
If you are trying to run a bullet that is way to long for your twist, then you should expect poor results.

9 times out of 10, if your grouping good at 100 and it falls apart at 200, it's either you, or your load sucks and needs more work.

 

[SMK1000plus]

Well I shot that load a few times and at 100 yards with the same results. Basically one hole. I shared my loaded with a friend which had the same gun (243 tikka t3 ) and he too had the same results as I had with the exact same load and once we shot past 100 yards to 200 and 300 the results were almost identical.
So about consistency I think your wrong . It wasn't just a fluke that two different shooters with two different guns had the same results. I would say that's consistent.
If a Bullet is not stable this will happen and shooting at 200+ tells me that info and I don't end up getting excited about a load that is less than 1/4 moa at 100 yards to be disappointed once I shoot it farther out.
I have had this go the other way to.
My personal preference is to have a gun shoot 1" at 200 yards but have had guns shoot 1.5"@ 200 every time and would consistently be 1/2 moa to 825 yards.
So for me 200 yards tells me a lot more than 100 yards so I develop all loads at 200 and then if it shows promise I shoot out from there.

If you want to shoot 100 yard development go ahead.

There are two occasions that I have seen this before: once in a .223 Rem with a 1 in 12" twist and firing 69gr SMK bullets and once in a 243 Win with a 1 in 10" twist (as in factory Tikka T3 and T3x rifles, Winchester M70s and others) firing 105gr Bergers.

Both times the rifles shot their respective loads, here in FL, at @ 80°F and a few feet above sea-level, very well at 100 yard, only to tumble before reaching 200 yards. Most didn't even hit the 8-1/2"x11" targets at 200 yards but, of those that did, keyholes and obvious yaw was present.

Very probable that you're using the wrong bullets for your rifles twist rate. YMMV

 

[Kmccord]

Tagging in

 

[Greyfox]

With the last 7 rifle/loads I have worked up with 200 yard ladders and accuracy testing, I have found that the optimized loads gave comparable results when tested at long range(500-1000+ yards). I like to test at 200 yards. IMO, it gives better resolution of the shots compared to 100 Yards. Too much past 200 yards, wind, mirage, etc. may introduce error to the results needed during testing. Compared to years ago, the quality of the components, particularly the top quality bullets with very accurate BC information, optimizing loads is far less complicated. This is from my most recent work done on my 6.5x47 PRS rifle. Initial testing had shown H4350 gave promising results with a bullet seating of the Berger 130gr Hybrid, 015" off the lands. The charge weight of 41.2 grains produced accuracy of 25MOA with SD of 4. When confirmed at 1000 yards, it produced <.5MOA at POI provided by my ballistic program. Interestingly, the entire ladder(1.2gr spread) was within .5MOA at 200 Yards. Velocity change/.1gr was less then 5FPS. The 41.8gr load showed slight pressure signs.

 

[jasent]

I do both. Normally I'll do seating depth test first as I believe that if your not close to a seating depth your rifle likes than any charge you try won't be good.

I start with my lowest charge and load 3 shot groups starting at .01" off the lands and work back in .03" jumps.
When I find the seating depth that shot well I'll use that to run a ladder test to see where my flat spots are( if conditions are bad I go by velocity alone) Then confirm those flat spots with 100 yard groups.

Once I have settled on a charge I'll revisit seating depth to fine tune the load.

This has worked very well for me

 

[JDD]

sounds like a lot of barrel wear going on! I use lab radar to check looking for low sd and es that group well. 3 round strings with .2 grains difference. Looking for FPS I want. Checking for groups at 100 that cluster with a low sd and es . I like flat primmer but no bolt drag or re-chambering issue! The best 100 yard group ,weather permitting is tested at 500 or 1000 yard 10 shot groups.

 

[Alaska2006]

Too many variables at 600 yrd for me. I like groups at 100 for dialing in a load and ladder at 200 to validate node. But that's just me