6.5mm Craze? 264WM vs 6.5 SAUM vs 6.5 PRC?

[Rick Richard]

I HAD a 6.5 SAUM and thought it was the "cats meow" until I attempted the second reloading on the then Hornady brass...primer pockets were loose enough where you could push the primers in by hand. Shortly there after, brass became about extinct. Also, I felt shooting the load with 140ish grain pills at extended ranges for elk size animals was pushing the envelope. So, rebarreled that rifle to 300 WSM and primarily used for elk. For deer size animals, I use the 6.5 X 47. In general, I feel any of the hot rod 6.5s are either too big or not necessary for deer size game and too small for elk size animals at extended ranges. Just my opinion.

 

[Hard rock]

I HAD a 6.5 SAUM and thought it was the "cats meow" until I attempted the second reloading on the then Hornady brass...primer pockets were loose enough where you could push the primers in by hand. Shortly there after, brass became about extinct. Also, I felt shooting the load with 140ish grain pills at extended ranges for elk size animals was pushing the envelope. So, rebarreled that rifle to 300 WSM and primarily used for elk. For deer size animals, I use the 6.5 X 47. In general, I feel any of the hot rod 6.5s are either too big or not necessary for deer size game and too small for elk size animals at extended ranges. Just my opinion.

The way I solved that problem ,if it might be one is I built a 6.5 prc on a Curtis customs Axiom short action with a WTO switch lug that will allow me too pre fit too a 300 WS M for a future elk hunt , both barrels will be traveling along with another back up rifle another 30 cal mag .

 

[WildRose]

Thanks for the kind words. I have stopped chasing lands because I have 2 guns with ridiculously long throats/freebore and the are both 1/2" or better guns. One is my 257 Wby I mentioned the other is a R700 5R Milspec in 308. I run accurate mags in it with bullets seated at 2.95 and I still have on average .0050" to touch the lands with most bullets I shoot. It that gun is a 1/2" gun as well. What also appears to happen with more freebore is you can drive the cartridge harder without pressure signs as easily. I have run my 257 Wby up to 3650fps with 115 VLDs before getting stiff bolt lift. I've run the .308 up to 2968fps with 168 ABLR and it only has a 20" barrel. I know speed isn't everything but it is nice for keeping down range velocity up for a bit further.

I get what you are saying, most BR shooters kiss or jam into the lands but I'm not so sure it matters as much as previously believed.

WBY used to really slope the ride into the lands for that very purpose.

VLD's tend to like to be right at or even into the lands due to their shape where conventional bullets like "the ride".

You are correct, WBY used that slope to allow for a longer, gently guided ride into the lands to allow for much higher velocities without excessive pressures.

 

[J.J. Weiland]

IMHO, they're all usable. I prefer the PRC. Multiple good brass options and other average brass options too. A reasonable amount of factory ammo options are manufactured too. Factory ammo is readily available. Maybe not during the current crisis but at least they're on the roster. No fire forming or necking down. It isn't magical but neither are the other two options you listed but it's convenient and checks all the boxes for me. The short action (with extended box mag) and 24" barrel combo seems to be a sweet spot that is tough to beat for weight, mobility and efficiency. The ballistic performance to recoil ratio is phenomenal with these cartridges.

Brass options and availability for the 6.5 WM leave plenty to be desired. Plus it seems as if you want to take advantage of the higher capacity case and longer burn column, longer barrels make it shine. And of course a long action is the only option. Not a problem if you don't care but personally, I prefer a SA where possible. No real factory rifle options. Little to no factory ammo options.

6.5 SAUM. It was the best thing going for a short fat case until the other contender came out in the same class. But it's still a wildcat with limited brass options unless you want no neck down. No real options for rifles or ammo.

A lot of guys hate the PRC because it's nothing new because there were already options available. IMO, the concepts of them were great but the execution of them for the average shooter was a fail and flop. Hornady came up with a comparable offering with factory ammo options and factory rifles chambered. They developed the sweet spots for loads and produce all of the above. When things are available, you can go buy a factory rifle, scope, rail, rings and a few ammo options and you will likely have a fairly decent setup with minimal work in the same day. Not quite a turn key arrangement but a lot more turn key than the others. Complain all you want but Hornady did a good job. It may not offer any ballistic advantage compared to the other two but they did the whole package from A-Z in a pretty attractive package. If you thumb your nose at Hornady for marketing ploys, then by all means, go with the WM or SAUM.

Great summary of facts! I went with the saum 28" about 10 years ago because of George Gardner write ups. He wasn't wrong it is a truly great rifle/round even though I have to reload. It forced me to learn a new skill (reloading) and am glad I did. Had the prc been around I probably would have gone that route and bought factory ammo. Never regretted the saum with 140's @ 3170fps. A truly deadly and accurate rifle.

I've been running a 6.5 saum for awhile and am very impressed with it.
I looked into the prc but it offers nothing over a 6.5x284 at 68 grains case capacity, and the saum outruns it by nearly 100 fps.
The only thing I don't like is trimming Brass! These short high performance 6.5s with 30 degree shoulders need trimmed every 3 firings.
I would go with a 6.5 Sherman max for the case growth fix alone, I believe ADG formed brass is available now

ADG is making brass and great brass at that!

 

[J.J. Weiland]

When I said three my brass still has a way too go haven't lost a primer pocket yet .,Hornady brass but prefer Lapua maybe in due time when all this shortage is over

I got 6 to 7 firings on Norma 7 saum brass necked down and running my 6.5saum reasonably fast @60gr h1000. Never used hornady brass bc add and Norma brass is available with a little patience.

 

[J.J. Weiland]

I di

Nope they don't matter. A track analogy is less than useless in the discussion of balistics as well.
You simply can't make stuff extra dead and if you need to justify a certain cartridges value in terms of tens of yards then it has no additional value. Your essentially comparing two identical cartridges and claiming one superior, it ain't- neither are superior to the other, both are perfectly fine cartridges capable at delivering bullets at generally the same effective range

I disagree, the 284 is much worse as a barrel burner than the saum. Read the George Gardner article, lower pressures and cooler running make the saum a much better choice.

 

[WildRose]

I di

I disagree, the 284 is much worse as a barrel burner than the saum. Read the George Gardner article, lower pressures and cooler running make the saum a much better choice.

I'm not sure I can buy that. There's a lot of guys who have put 600, 1,000 or more rounds through and just kept on going .284's and 6.5x284's.

 

[TXTrained]

I did see some previews of Berger ammo loaded with 156's... that'll be huge. I know ADG makes saum brass but I was just arguing the point that the PRC has several different options.

If I was building another, I would no doubt do a 6.5 SAUM. But I have a complete reloading set up and tons of powder - all I would need is brass. For the guy that isn't terribly serious and maybe wants to shoot factory until he gets set up to reload, or he doesn't have the cash to build a custom, the 6.5 PRC makes perfect sense.

I had a 6.5 x 47 that I sold because I liked my 6.5 PRC Better and it shot equally as well as my custom 6.5x47. We all have our favorites. .As it should be.

 

[7.62 Gunner]

I'm not sure I can buy that. There's a lot of guys who have put 600, 1,000 or more rounds through and just kept on going .284's and 6.5x284's.

Agreed
Most match shooters were using 4350 in their 6 5x284s which is a known throat torcher.
Compare any similar sized case with the same powders and there's very little difference between them in terms of barrel life.
People have been claiming all sorts of stuff about shoulder angle, and longer necks extending throat life but there's zero scientific evidence to support any of it.
Certainly real world feedback debunks those claims

 

[Kimber7man]

What's an average barrel life for the 6.5-284? Say using 140's and H1000.

 

[WildRose]

What's an average barrel life for the 6.5-284?

Like others that's largely dependent on how you shoot.

If you're running long shot strings on a hot barrel wear and tear is much more rapid than if you never shoot one hot and keep shooting.

Shooting hot barrels can cut their lifespan by half or more.

For a hunter, you'll probably never live long enough to shoot one out, but if you're an avid shooter/competitor 600rds is probably pushing the limits of practical barrel life.

 

[Kimber7man]

normally it's 5 shots over 2-3 minutes and let it cool.

 

[7.62 Gunner]

What's an average barrel life for the 6.5-284? Say using 140's and H1000.

Match shooters were getting 1000-1200 with the 6.5x284 using 4350, I'd guess 1500+ with something like H1000.
The prc and saum would all be in the same ballpark

 

[TXTrained]

I di

I disagree, the 284 is much worse as a barrel burner than the saum. Read the George Gardner article, lower pressures and cooler running make the saum a much better choice.

SAUM Much better for What? Maybe he is in the Barrel Selling Business.. Therefore it burns out faster and he gets to sell more barrels... LOL