6.5 PRC as a ELR antelope cartridge?

[Mach 1]

Like, state statute??

Majority of state regs I have seen require you to use an expanding bullet. I know the A-tip would likely not be ruled as a "non expanding" bullet by anyone, that is mostly reserved for FMJ's. Just saying that there is a reason that bullets NEED to expand to do proper damage to an animal. If no bone is hit to create secondary projectiles, the wound from a bullet that didn't expand would look very similar to a target tipped arrow wound. Which is also illegal for big game.

A fmj bullet going 3000 fps at the muzzle creates the same wound at a field tip arrow? That's just nuts. Roy weatherby would also disagree with you. Your over looking the fact that it's the shear velocity that turns everything to mush around the bullet wound

 

[Creedmoor shooter]

CAN1010,
The is exactly the kind of info we need on various 6.5 PRC bullets. I wonder if the Hornady 147 gr. ELD-M would do on deer size game?

Been my experience so far that any eld-m bullet is a killer. Both 6.5mm and 7mm. We use the 140eld-m in our creedmoors. Whitetails worst night mare. I've killed 2 bears with the 140s as well. Most lethal bullet I've used to date

 

[Mach 1]

Add bad judgment in equipment (wrong bullet) and shooter error (bad wind call) together and you have someone that doesn't need to be shooting animals at that distance (or maybe any) out of shear ignorance. The ignorance is not knowing better, but with the information out there today that is a moot point so I would call that stupid. Having seen Mach 1's previous posts in other threads I think he is neither ignorant nor stupid, I think maybe just being facetious. Although, I have been wrong before.

At 1000 yards a 90 degree 5mph wind will blow a 6.5 bullet off 2.2 moa. The same direction 10mph wind will blow the same round off 5.5 moa. That's 25 inches of added wind drift for just a5 mph wind change. The atip compared to the 140 Berger hybrid like I shoot has 10 inches less wind drift at 1000 yards. So imo I will take the round that shoots best in my gun and I'm comfortable with. We aren't shooting an animal with the kill zone the size of an elk or ever a whitetail. I've shot countless whitails and a few mullies with 200 gr sierra matchkings , before going to the 215 hybrid, and they are notorious for not expanding or shredding the jacked instantly. They are unpredictable, but if a good shot it made the deer don't go anywhere reguardless of the range.

 

[Mach 1]

Being "Truly Honest", and with all due respect, my take is that your advice and rational seems flippant. With a few dozen antelope shot, and seeing others shot by hunters over the years with a variety of calibers and bullet types, a 6.5( or even a 30) caliber non-expanding bullet can result in a long tracking endeavor, or lost animal, particularly at the longer ranges. Antelope can cover remarkably long distances before they succumb to a pencil sized hole, even through the major vessels. The terminal performance of the bullet is a critical factor in LRH. As for shooting game at long range, the knowledge, decision process, and skill to actually make an effective long range shot is perhaps a separate discussion.

I've seen so called expanding bullets pulled from game shot at 850 to 900 yards. At 1000 yards the velocity is even lower so I can say that the emphasis on "expanding bullets" is overrated. There is a massive difference between the expansion at 500-600 yards and 1000 yards, which correlated directly to the size and severity of the wound channel. What I'm says is if the op wants to use the heavier atip at 1000 yards more power to him. He will have 10 inches less of wind drift with the atip in a 10 mph wind and I think we can all agree shot placement is the most important

 

[tim2446]

I would like to clarify, I have no issue with anyone taking or attempting to take an animal way way out there, I was just wanting to point out bullet selection for doing so. Hopefully the A tips work great, I have just heard rumors about harder alloys and a lack of expansion, and for elr that isn't good, one would want to lean more towards a light built bullet that will certainly expand when you reach the minimum threshold of velocity. And I agree, tip material doesn't really mean anything, we as hunters know that aluminum tips work, they have used them long before long range hunting was really a thing. It's just the rest of the bullet design in question, for now. But hunting season is quickly approaching!! As of the 15th of this month, I have two doe pronghorn that will be test subjects for the 156 Berger. Hoping I can test them on one closeish and another going to try around 1000 or a little over to see how the bullet does. Then my wife has 2 more tags, and my niece has 2 more tags ha ha.

BTW Bravo, the offer on that hunt is still open, anytime your able to make it!

 

[tim2446]

6.5 prc loves the ELD x . Loaded 140 VLDs and was pretty happy and just for the heck of it ordered a box of ELD X and the factory load was as good as my hand loads and 100 fps better. (no kill shots yet with PRC) shot out to 1170.

156 I've seen 4 kills with them from 300 to 700 totally deadly on deer out of a
26 Nosler.

 

[Bravo 4]

Although, I have been wrong before.

I'm not too big to admit that I was wrong again.

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I think that BC is important but not the one deciding factor, terminal performance is just as important. In other words you have to hit it but hit it with the right equipment. I wouldn't purposefully hit an animal with a bullet I wasn't confident in.

 

[Mach 1]

I'm not too big to admit that I was wrong again.

We are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I think that BC is important but not the one deciding factor, terminal performance is just as important. In other words you have to hit it but hit it with the right equipment. I wouldn't purposefully hit an animal with a bullet I wasn't confident in.

Yes we will just have to agree to disagree. I once in awhile take out the old original 45-90 with 405 cast lead bullets going 1475 fps at the muzzle and shoot a deer. If that old 120 year old rifle with those ballistics can drop a deer in its tracks then I just dont see a problem using the atip. That's just my thought.

 

[Bravo 4]

I too have shot deer with a cast .45 caliber and wasn't impressed, so I don't do it any more. It will kill, just better alternatives.

 

[codyadams]

I too have shot deer with a cast .45 caliber and wasn't impressed, so I don't do it any more. It will kill, just better alternatives.

And also, even cast lead expands, depending on how hard it is cast. My father uses a lever 44 mag for brush stuff, but he uses nearly pure lead with no linotype, and is shooting around 1850-1900 fps, so they certainly expand. He experimented with different alloy mixtures through water jugs to make sure he was getting expansion as well. The only thing he would even consider using hard cast for is bear protection out of a handgun. But even a nearly pure lead mixture passed completely through a cow elk at 75 yards, with a fist sized exit, dropped her where she stood. I dont think a hard cast projectile, or non expanding bullet, would have nearly as dramatic of an effect.

 

[Mach 1]

I too have shot deer with a cast .45 caliber and wasn't impressed, so I don't do it any more. It will kill, just better alternatives.

I do it for the challenge. I bought a flintlock a few months ago, and I'm going to take a doe with it this season hopefully. I can't seem to get used to the delay in ignition but I'm going to hunt with it anyway, wether its capable of an "ethical kill" or not.

 

[Bravo 4]

Brother you do what you want, I don't care to get into any discussion concerning "ethics". Who we are, what we do and what we believe are all different. There are plenty of folks that would cry foul about some of the things I do, like ranges I would take an animal...and we are on a long range (and ELR) hunting site. What they don't realize is that what they consider long range I would call mid range.
I do what I do for the challenge too, and long range shooting is my job and about my only hobby.

 

[Yeager]

Ethics aside, isn't long range hunting best served by knowing the terminal performance of all bullets like the A-tip when used for hunting? I have my personal ethic, but I have no desire to change others to mine. 10-4 Bravo 4, we are all different and in 60 years of hunting I have made my share of mistakes. Boy have I!!

 

[Greyfox]

I've seen so called expanding bullets pulled from game shot at 850 to 900 yards. At 1000 yards the velocity is even lower so I can say that the emphasis on "expanding bullets" is overrated. There is a massive difference between the expansion at 500-600 yards and 1000 yards, which correlated directly to the size and severity of the wound channel. What I'm says is if the op wants to use the heavier atip at 1000 yards more power to him. He will have 10 inches less of wind drift with the atip in a 10 mph wind and I think we can all agree shot placement is the most important

I believe the onus is on the hunter to understand the terminal performance on game, and let this dictate his conditions of use. Relevant to the 6.5PRC/6.5x284 class cartridges, generally, the heavy, high BC bullets do not deliver the level of wind drift benefit you state, at least at hunting distances. The velocity loss due to the heavier bullet offsets the improved BC. The major advantage given the bullet has has good expansion characteristics is increased terminal energy. I have found this to be the case with a recent load development of the Berger 156 Elite Hunter. compared to the 140hVLD. With optimized loads, trajectory and wind drift are close to identical, but 1000 yard energy is 15-20% greater.