6.5 Creedmor- the Holy Grail?

[redneckbmxer24]

That your creedmoor load or a factory load? Looks like a factory creedmoor load vs a handloaded 300.

It's still not close you don't have to do factory vs handloads to prop up the 300

Also completely irrelevant unless you're shooting elk at point blank range. That 143 ELD-X is going to hold energy way better down range due to its BC.

 

[Michael Souther]

I went hunting with my brother in law and he shot a nice buck with a 264 Win mag. Blood shot the whole side. big mess. also jumped some elk with a small caliber Weatherby. Don't know how many elk he hit and lost, but that is sickening. Take the gun for the job and cut the b.s. Bragging rights are not worth lost game or damaged meat.

 

[TXBodean]

I know I am going to get a bunch of flack for posting this, but....

In a recent conversation with a friend of mine, who has a grand slam of sheep on his bedroom wall, and a super slam of the rest of the game animals in North America less a barren ground caribou, I was told during a conversation about accurate smaller caliber rounds that he has four friends, who this year each lost mature elk bulls each with a 140 grain bullet reasonable well placed from a 6.5 Creedmor.
This cartridge, to me, seems to have the ability in many of its proponents minds to be the holy grail of all cartridge designs. It is sad when common sense is put back in the gun locker when any of us take to the woods with a weapon that doesn't really fill the bill for the game we hunt, when we know we have the horsepower in the locker to do the job properly.
Elmer Keith who we all know loved the .270 Winchester. But his favorite for hunting and guiding for elk is reported to be the .375 H&H. He also loved the .338 Win Mag.
Dead is Dead, but wounded is usually also dead but with a heavy dose of suffering to go with it.
I own a .338 Win Mag and have made it a point to be able to shoot it comfortably. I also own 2 25-06's and 3 .243's. I use the latter to plink, for my grandchildren to shoot deer, and for just a fun day on the range. When the hunt is on for me and as a back up it is 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Exact or .338 Win Mag. Common sense to see that Dead is Dead when I pull the trigger on something worth shooting.

There are at least two trains of thought common to hunters. One, is to push the limit of the combination of cartridge, distance, and size game. Two, is to make sure that your cartridge of choice has adequate margin to support the distance and size of game you are hunting. Coming from an engineering heavy occupation I have a healthy regard for Murphy's Law. I like to have lots of margin.

 

[rokstockrangtang]

Lost 4 animals in a row. Boy you'd think the superslam guy would have the skills to find a wounded animal.

Or at least have the ability to hit it

 

[Tex_Hunter]

Again... 11 pages in we still have people claiming they "know someone" who shot an elk with a well placed shot and "lost" the animal. Yet, still 11 pages in, we do not have any additional details about the bullet/distance/rifle etc... again, you lost the animal so have no idea where they hit it, so it must be the cartridge, nobody here willing to own a bad shot. Just a bunch of "I once knew a guy" anecdotal evidence that just so happens to confirm your initial assumptions.

Meanwhile we have several responders, one who even posted a bunch of pictures, of successful kills with appropriate shot placement, and or actual ballistics comparisons.

 

[257Tony]

We guide and kill 25-30 bull elk per year on the ranch I guide on, some of our clients cant kill an elk to save their life even with big .30's and .338's. On the other end, I have several clients that I wouldn't bat an eye at if they wanted to use a .243.

Fastest non-cns kill I've ever seen was a 140 accubond from a 6.5 (264 wm) at 400 yards, right through the ribs, took one step and fell over dead. I've also seen a bull take 7 hits from a 7mm mag before he gave up the ghost, and another take 5 from a 338.

Point is, if you lose an animal, elk included, 99% chance it was poor shot placement.

 

[Tex LR]

The 6.5 Creedmoor has certainly provided a topic for many interesting and emotional discussions since its release. Lots of fans and lots of haters. Perhaps one of the most interesting (and over looked) topics, is the marketing success of the cartridge. The team at Hornady in conjunction with a handful of rifle builders got the shooting world excited again about a 6.5 cartridge. This has led to great improvements in bullet selection for anyone who shoots a 6.5 bore. For this, I'm grateful. So love it or hate it, its been a beneficial development for our sport.

 

[Bullseye]

The CM popularity can just as easily be chalked up to Remington developing a good cartridge and then inserting their brain into their rear and ruining it. If they had half a marketing team or logistics team everyone would have been shooting them for years.

By the time the CM came out with good factory ammo and decent twist rates the Internet was booming and all people had to do was look up a YouTube video. Had Rem done it right that video would have said 260. Instead it said CM.

So what you're saying is, if Remington had created the 260 Rem with a faster twist and ammo that actually shot well with bullets that people actually wanted to use, it would have been popular. Yeah... so, if Rem had done the 260 right (basically making it a Creedmoor), it would be so popular today that elitists would be trashing it as the hipster cartridge of choice and the Creedmoor would have never needed to be developed!

Instead, the 260 was spec'd with a 1:9" twist, a 2.035" case and a 2.8" COL, meaning it wouldn't properly stabilize the heavy-for-caliber bullets (not talking soft points here) and you'd have to cram bullets down in to the case to make COL. Obviously hand-loaders can seat bullets out to whatever COL they want and most LR 260 shooters build with a faster-twist barrel.

The point of the Creedmoor was to make something in a factory configuration where you don't need to buy a custom fast-twist barrel or hand load to be able to make use of high-performance projectiles. It worked and has become the best selling cartridge of the last few years.

Do any of the LR shooters here that trash the Creedmoor because they like the 260 even use a SAAMI spec, 1:9" twist 260 Rem? Or use factory ammo?

 

[Deleted member 103481]

So what you're saying is, if Remington had created the 260 Rem with a faster twist and ammo that actually shot well with bullets that people actually wanted to use, it would have been popular.

Yeah

 

[coop2564]

Any caliber u hunt with can and will wound an animal of any size! U say u know several wounded with a 140gr i know several that have wounded little deer with 200gr bullets and bigger! If u hit them where u r supposed to with a good bullet a 140gr will kill a moose dead as a hammer! If u do not use a good bullet and do not hit them where u should it could mean trouble. No matter what caliber!

 

[KyCarl]

My numbers came straight from Wikipedia...?
It said nothing at all about handloads!
I inflated Nothing!!

 

[FIGJAM]

Here is some numbers that you can use.
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/26-nosler/
https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/65-creedmoor/

Again I'll repeat. Using 1800fps with a .264 cal bullet on elk is probably not a good idea. Can it work? Yep. 1800fps with a .338 cal bullet much better idea.

I was told yesterday that I don't like 6.5's and probably haven't used one. Have used a 6.5-06 and a 6.5-300rum imp on 6 elk from 350y to 600y. I think 6.5's are magic, but there is only so much pixie dust...

Also I am not anti small caliber. I set myself up a 6mm Creed Hammer Bullet death ray this year and carried it for everything. Did not get a chance on elk yet with it. I intend to, just for the data. It is running our 88g Hammer Hunter at 3350fps. On paper will carry 1800fps past 700y. Doesn't make it a 700y elk cartridge. I don't for a second think it will replace my 338 Lap imp running 260g Hammer Hunters at 3260fps at any range.

I think it is hilarious that you will criticize the adequacy of a 140 gr bullet out of a 6.5 creedmoor, but claim that one of your low bc 6mm 88 gr hammer bullets is more than adequate and you are going to use it on elk, just for the data tho right? Give me a break man...

 

[Danehunter]

BULL ELK-> my .300 Win mag Browning A-Bolt with 180 - 215 grain hunting bullets.
(I would accept a 6.5 PRC with 150 gr. hunting bullets. It has enough energy to 500 yards.)

ANTELOPE, DEER AND COW ELK-> MY 6.5 Creedmoor Browning X-Bolt Pro with 129 - 143 grain hunting bullets, depending on the animal.

Many heavy wild hogs are killed with 6.5 CM bullets so it can do the job when properly placed at a reasonable range, say within 400 yards.

So yes, you need to be within 300 yards with at least a factory Hornady 143 grain ELD-X bullet that is well placed to ethically down a bull elk with a 6.5 CM.

Eric B.

 

[djm670]

There is no way a 6.5 CM is as good for Elk as a 300 WM! Look at the energy !
The 300 has nearly twice as much!
143 gr (9 g) Hornady ELD-X 2,710 ft/s (830 m/s) 2,283 ft⋅lbf
200 gr (13.0 g) Partition 3,029 ft/s (923 m/s) 4,092 ft⋅lbf

If you use the Hornaday Ammunition site for the same info...

143 gr Hornady ELD-X 2700 ft/s and 2315 ft-lbs
200 gr Hornady ELD-X 2850 ft/s and 3607 ft-lbs

Both in Hornady's precision hunter lines

Still A big difference at a 55% increase in energy. But the 6.5 CM is still good for about 400 to 500 yards.

Chuck Hawks says 1200 ft-lbs should be about the minimum energy.. and the 143 gr Creedmoor still has 1305 ft-bs at 500 yards out of a 24 inch barrel.

This is a non winnable argument as neither side is going to convince the other.. so use what works for you, what you shoot comfortably, accurately and well.. know your target yardage and your bullet construction and what it will do.. and shoot accordingly. I have never had an issue putting my elk down, usually with one shot mostly with a .25-06 and couple of times with a 6 mm remington. Thus I am sure a 6.5 creedmoor will kill one just fine though I have not used one. Did just procured one, and intend to get a 6.5 PRC this coming year. So maybe we shall see next year.

I particularly like this line in Mr. Hawk's article.. "The result is that guys who can shoot and who put their first bullet into an elk's vitals think the .270 is a perfectly adequate elk cartridge; those who can't and don't think it is lousy. They often conclude that nothing less than a .338 Magnum will stop an elk."