6.5 Creedmor- the Holy Grail?

[Michael Souther]

I know I am going to get a bunch of flack for posting this, but....

In a recent conversation with a friend of mine, who has a grand slam of sheep on his bedroom wall, and a super slam of the rest of the game animals in North America less a barren ground caribou, I was told during a conversation about accurate smaller caliber rounds that he has four friends, who this year each lost mature elk bulls each with a 140 grain bullet reasonable well placed from a 6.5 Creedmor.
This cartridge, to me, seems to have the ability in many of its proponents minds to be the holy grail of all cartridge designs. It is sad when common sense is put back in the gun locker when any of us take to the woods with a weapon that doesn't really fill the bill for the game we hunt, when we know we have the horsepower in the locker to do the job properly.
Elmer Keith who we all know loved the .270 Winchester. But his favorite for hunting and guiding for elk is reported to be the .375 H&H. He also loved the .338 Win Mag.
Dead is Dead, but wounded is usually also dead but with a heavy dose of suffering to go with it.
I own a .338 Win Mag and have made it a point to be able to shoot it comfortably. I also own 2 25-06's and 3 .243's. I use the latter to plink, for my grandchildren to shoot deer, and for just a fun day on the range. When the hunt is on for me and as a back up it is 7mm Rem Mag, 7mm Exact or .338 Win Mag. Common sense to see that Dead is Dead when I pull the trigger on something worth shooting.

I use my 338 win mag for deer and elk. Drop dead. love my 6 5s but lost game hurts

 

[hunter67wa]

yawn. its gone to far

 

[Phantom30]

2,200 yards to far??? what no humor. I like my 6 n 6.5CMs they work well

 

[Mach 1]

I think we all can agree that the 6.5 creed is not the ideal elk cartridge past 300 yards. It's just not, it's not arguable.
However There is something to be said for shooting something that you familiar, comfortable, and confident with. Shot placement is paramount but kinetic energy is important too, especially on elk and the like.
As far as being the grail of cartridges, that just makes me laugh. I'm not a fan of the 6.5 creedmore as I think it's decent at a lot but great at nothing. It's a testament to what advertising can do. All hornady did was reinvent the wheel with the 6.5 creed. The 6.5 creedmore popularity can be chalked up to people wanting the new thing.

 

[Mach 1]

2,200 yards to far??? what no humor. I like my 6 n 6.5CMs they work well

They work about the same as anything else.

 

[edward hogan]

If there is a "holy grail" rifle cartridge/chambering; it isn't the Creedmoor. Maybe it was an Instant Classic among the serious target longrangers, but must agree that with so many 155-160gr bullets discontinued over the past 10yrs, no 6.5mm can do it ALL...

Owning a precision Obermeyer barreled LR/Tactical rifle in .260rem, I was never too excited about the 6.5 Creedmoor. "holy grail" status is more applicable to the .260rem IF considering 6.5s because of only 1 thing: just neck down a .308win case and you are set! Of course, not that many guys handload; and by "guys" I mean this age's serious shooters. My view is that you aren't a Serious Shooter until you've learned precision handloading by doing it...

In my view, as a precision handloader and shooter, the Ackley Improved case family IS The Best There Is... For all-purpose applications The .280rem, .30-06, & .338-06 in Ackley Improved configuration (with 40deg or maybe 35deg shoulder) ARE Most Versatile and Capable for longrange precision with heavy, high BC bullets and Capable of Almost Magnum Ballistics. The Gibbs ctg family is also worthy of consideration if sole use is for hunting. No, not gonna find .30 or .33 Gibbs on the shelf at the gun emporium on Kodiak Island, (or anywhere else) but Gibbs ctgs are overlooked.

A "holy grail" ctg must also be capable of handling Cast Boolits... Cast results favor bigger diameters and slower twists. The .338-06AI is pretty optimum for cast applications and the Lee 220gr goes about 225gr when hardcast from wheelweights for optimum penetration. I have a 283gr .338 roundnose mold that delivers about 292gr hardcast. Pretty heavy Sectional Density numbers from an almost 300gr roundnosed .338 boolit...

In my book, as more precision handloader than hunter, a "holy grail" ctg will use a .308win or .30-06 as its parent case. Yes, I have owned a .308win AI target rifle too, and for primary accuracy the .308win case offers that smidge more potential, but lacks the 100fps more velocity of the 06 variants. With a full set of tapered expander balls and set of correct Redding Neck Bushings, the Redding bushing sizer dies (fl or neck) make ammunition creation a breeze. To make .260rem from .308 I neck-down to 7mm first, and then use the 6.5mm bushing.. Works same for 06 ctg family.

While there are so many chambering choices these days, the availability of premium quality and versatile loading dies governs my decisionmaking; Want to pay several hundred for each set of custom dies; it's your money... Redding Type S dies in AI are readily available. Usually the .30cal Type S die will have enough bushing clearance to allow use for .338 cal. I use a Type S .300win die for .338/300mag loading...

As for seating dies, Forster bench or micrometer dies are a great choice as they will sell you spare case-bodies which can be reamed for your ctg or might be AI available. Redding AI seaters, usually only in a die set, can be modified with their micrometer seating head, but you still lack the sliding case-body unless you find an AI chambering in their match seater, match bushing die sets.

Of course, with an AI ctg there's always the potential for firing standard, non-AI shouldered ammunition, often without accuracy diminishment; just in case you ever have to... One more "holy grail" attribute no other ctg series has.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

AllThe 6.5 creedmore popularity can be chalked up to people wanting the new thing.

The CM popularity can just as easily be chalked up to Remington developing a good cartridge and then inserting their brain into their rear and ruining it. If they had half a marketing team or logistics team everyone would have been shooting them for years.

By the time the CM came out with good factory ammo and decent twist rates the Internet was booming and all people had to do was look up a YouTube video. Had Rem done it right that video would have said 260. Instead it said CM.

 

[KyCarl]

There is no way a 6.5 CM is as good for Elk as a 300 WM! Look at the energy !
The 300 has nearly twice as much!
143 gr (9 g) Hornady ELD-X 2,710 ft/s (830 m/s) 2,283 ft⋅lbf
200 gr (13.0 g) Partition 3,029 ft/s (923 m/s) 4,092 ft⋅lbf

 

[Pauleye]

I have a 260 Remington,but hunt elk with a 300 Winchester..I agree with the OP, use the right caliber..The advertising boys have reallly built up the 6.5 CM, however its no better that many other calibers including the 260 Rem.

 

[Mach 1]

The CM popularity can just as easily be chalked up to Remington developing a good cartridge and then inserting their brain into their rear and ruining it. If they had half a marketing team or logistics team everyone would have been shooting them for years.

By the time the CM came out with good factory ammo and decent twist rates the Internet was booming and all people had to do was look up a YouTube video. Had Rem done it right that video would have said 260. Instead it said CM.

That is true for the most part. I shoot a 260 alot and I think it's a superior cartridge to the 6.5 creed in every area except feeding from a box mag when standard freebore reamers are used. For that reason the 6.5 creed has a big following in the precision rifle series and that has also helped it's popularity since prs matches have spread like fire

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I just read the entire thread and it's simply amazing at how clueless some people are to ballistics. Never knew there were so many fudds on this website.

Is the 6.5 Creedmoor or any other 6.5mm/.264 that pushes the same weight bullet at similar velocities a 1000 yard elk rifle? Absolutely not. Is it more than adequate for elk within reasonable distances with a proper bullet well placed on target? Absolutely it is. Bullet selection and shot placement is everything regardless of what you're hunting. Make a bad shot or send the wrong bullet and you're likely going to have a less than positive experience.

With something like the 127gr Barnes LRX that expands down to 1600fps I'd have no second thoughts about running it out of a Creedmoor for elk out to 600 yards which is as far as I'm comfortable shooting big game like an elk at. Fired at 2850fps which is easily achievable from a good barrel it's still moving over 1900fps at 600 yards in any conditions and altitude you're going to be elk hunting in. If that doesn't get the job done then you can't blame the bullet or the gun, you're just a crappy shot.

Again, a friend of mine goes to Colorado every year and shoots an elk with a 6mm Berger 95gr going about 3200fps and every year comes home with the elk he shot and never complains about a lost animal or not having enough gun. So what are you guys doing wrong that a 6.5mm isn't enough gun?

 

[Bigeclipse]

I am not a long range hunter (400 yards) but I hear a lot of bagging on the CM which makes me laugh. There are a lot of posters on this thread who certainly are better shots than me and have much better equipment but lets be serious guys, if you do not find the animal then you have ZERO evidence what happened. GO over on a bow hunting thread and everyone there will state that unless you find the animal you cannot say the broadhead failed or you used too light an arrow...etc. My buddy shot a deer earlier this year and swore up and down it was a perfect shot and the new broadheads he used were garbage. I found the deer 3 days later. It was 100% a gut shot. Now my buddy is a long time hunter and has only lost one other deer bow hunting, so when he swore he made a good shot I believed him but the proof was in the deer. It was a bad shot. I am not saying that has happened here with these elk but my bet is they were bad shots hitting thick bone or guts or misses all together. All of that being said, I probably would not use a 6.5 CM on an elk myself but I doubt it was the caliber that was the problem. Just my two cents.

 

[Deleted member 103481]

There is no way a 6.5 CM is as good for Elk as a 300 WM! Look at the energy !
The 300 has nearly twice as much!
143 gr (9 g) Hornady ELD-X 2,710 ft/s (830 m/s) 2,283 ft⋅lbf
200 gr (13.0 g) Partition 3,029 ft/s (923 m/s) 4,092 ft⋅lbf

That your creedmoor load or a factory load? Looks like a factory creedmoor load vs a handloaded 300.

It's still not close you don't have to do factory vs handloads to prop up the 300

 

[Mach 1]